Council fitting Flats with firedoors - Want to put videoSpyhole cam in

[sarahj]

Ok so the council are fitting all the flats with firedoors - which is good.

But they announced this after I had spent over 200 quid on having my spyhole changed to a video spyhole.

Apparently if you so much as look at the new fire door the certificate is invalidated the earth falls of its axis and the council makes you pay for a new one.

I have rung various people including those who fit these particular doors (masterdor) only to be met with contradictory opinions. From "don't touch it or the sky will fall in" to "you need a certificate but we don't know what one."

My question is can I get my spyholecam thingy fitted in to the new door with the intumescent thingy around it.
And do I need a certificate from the company that puts it in the new door? If so what is the certificate called?

[terry martin]

generally speaking you should not breach the structure of a fire door.

However, i would argue this point with the council. Your safety in a fire situation should be balanced with your own personal safety should an unsavory character come knocking on your door.

if i where to inspect the building, i would not raise this as a concern

there has always been a struggle to find the right balance between fire safety and security of premises. sometimes it just comes down to compromise and common sense.

if they are to refuse you a spyhole, then they should provide you with other means to confirm the identity of a caller. i.e video link intercom.

Does the new front door you have been provided with have a letter box in it?

[The Colonel]

Terry

Agree 100% with what you have said, what difference does a small hole (assuming it is small) make compared with a letter box. If the council are being so fussy ask them to fit a fire rated letter box.

Sarah
Have a look at a company called Envirograf they and other companies supply almost endless solutions when it come to inproving fire resistance

[wee brian]

So you are both willing to sign a statement that making a hole (of any size and in any place) in a fire door will not adversely affect its fire resistance?

Thats a very brave decision minister!

[jokar]

Simple really, a fire door requires certification and anything put in after the certification will make it null and void.

[terry martin]

So you are both willing to sign a statement that making a hole (of any size and in any place) in a fire door will not adversely affect its fire resistance?

Thats a very brave decision minister!

I'm sure we all know that any hole will comprimise the intergrity of a door in a fire, but the size of the hole will determine the extent to which the integrity has been compromised. you would have to assess each situation on merit,  obviously some whacking great big hole excused as a letter box wouldn't be acceptable, but a spy hole would make little difference.

i also agee with the point that, strictly speaking any retro fitting to a door would require the door to be re-certificated.

BUT.... come on lads!! in the real world, would you really enforce the replacement of someone's front door because they put a spyhole in it?

Would that really make a difference to the safety of the building? I personally don't believe it would.

I will now stick my neck out and say, i would never enforce it.

[Tom Sutton]

If it is a certifire Fire Door and I would suggest any Fire Door then,
Cutting an aperture in a fire door creates a weak point that is the most likely point of failure if not done properly. A fire test data sheet will identify the maximum area of aperture allowed on a specific door, which includes glazing, letter plates, air vents and spy holes. It is recommended that a licensed converter is used and the door furniture is installed with reference to the data sheet.

[Chris Houston]

I will now stick my neck out and say, i would never enforce it.

Hurrah for common sence!

I'm sure there are bigger fish to fry.

[wee brian]

I agree - but you can see why the Local Authority is being cautious.

None of us have even seen the gadget that Sarahj is talking about!

Nor have we seen the construction of the door or where the hole is going.

For Sarahj to convince the LA to accept his camera then he will have to prove that its OK. He could get an fire resistance assessment but that will cost more than the 200 quid he has already spent!

[Midland Retty]

Video spyhole - does it really cause a problem in a fire door?

The answer is no. Consider an intumescent collar for added peace of mind, but in real terms the spyhole will do little to lessen the integrity of the door.
 
Oh dear - whoops-a-daisy the world just fell off it's axis, the sky has fallen in and I have just been spring boarded back into oblivion. Just a normal monday afternoon then!

[Chris Houston]

We live in the world of risk assessment, uncomfortable as it may be, sometimes we have to make assumptions.  Surely there are greater risks to the population than her camera.  What do they want her to do, employ BRE to do a fire test on a mock up of it?  

If we ever run a competition for "most pedantic issue to be raised on FireNet" this one must be in with a good chance.