charging for FDR1 forms

[Chris Houston]

if fire brigades are prohibited from making profits, then why do they charge (about £130) to fax me a copy of a FDR1 form?

[MrH]

Where does it say the fire service is prohibited from making a profit?

The charges your pay for are administration, time and postage

[kurnal]

In any case it wont be worth it.
 A fire investigation report will cost you similar and will be of much greater use to you (assuming they have carried out an investigation)

[Midland Retty]

if fire brigades are prohibited from making profits, then why do they charge (about £130) to fax me a copy of a FDR1 form?

Its not profit Chris (or atleast thats what they will tell you)

Its the admin charge and officers time involved in writing the report. (Im not saying the costs are exactly cheap)

I've known some fire investigation reports (which aren't FDR 1s) to cost up to £400 per copy

[Chris Houston]

I thought legislation prohibited profiteering. Am I wrong?

The report was already written before I asked for a copy, they had it faxed to me within 10 minutes of me asking for it. So my calculations of their costs are 10 minutes extra admin time, 7 pages of paper and a 50p fax.

K, correct to say the answers on the form are brief would be overly kind "place where fire started" "room"; "occupancy of building" "single"; "main trade" "other"; "discovery" "person". Brilliant, eh?

Hardly inspiring when the reason I'm looking into this is to try and prevent any more fires.

[Midland Retty]

I dont disagree Chris

And im not saying the costs are balanced or relative to the time taken to produce / duplicate the form.

But they will say its admin costs, its not profiteering squire

[Mike Buckley]

Remember the main aim of the FDR1 is to provide statistics and the categories are fairly broad.

The amount of detail will also depend on the Brigade and the person filling it in and checking it. At one time the officer checking the FDR1s in my brigade would reject it if the wording did not comply with the guidance given, hence when filling in the FDR1 we looked at the guidance and put the nearest we could find. OK it didn't reflect the actual circumstances but the FDR1 didn't come back!

Also remember an FDR1 is filled in for every fire, so look at the number of fires in a year every one has an FDR1 and it took a good half hour to fill the form in.

So as an OiC I've just got back from a fire tired,hot, sweaty and wanting a brew, I have to get the crews organised to sort out and replenish the pumps then keep them occupied while I fill in this ***** form. This is not going to be an objective scientific dissertation.

[messy]

I reckon commercial Insurance Companies have absolutely no right to expect free services of a F&RS over and above what they are legally obliged to provide.

This in effect would mean that ratepayers would be subsidising such company's activities, which in my mind seems worse than charging a company for a FDR or any other report or interview.

[Chris Houston]

I reckon commercial Insurance Companies have absolutely no right to expect free services of a F&RS over and above what they are legally obliged to provide.

This in effect would mean that ratepayers would be subsidising such company's activities, which in my mind seems worse than charging a company for a FDR or any other report or interview.

Can I just clarify that I work for an insurance broker. I am doing work for our client, the building owner. My objective is to educate them to reduce fires thus save fire services money. I think that insurers, fire services and occupiers should work together for the greater good. Anyone who was at last years seminar at west midlands fire service will confirm that my employers were very pleased to be able to provide our time free of charge for the same objective. Its sad to hear it doesn't work the other way.

The commercial insurance company I used to work for were pleased to release employees to the arson prevention bureau, to supply the FPA with stats, to send me to meet CFOA to help them reduce false alars from fire alarm systems.

[Chris Houston]

so if it takes half an hour to fill it in, 10 minutes and 50p to fax, this doesn't add up to £135 unless OICs get about £240 an hour. £135 to my employer is not much, but I can't understand why on one hand those who have false alarms can't be charged for the attendance of a crew of 4 supported by a half million quid of kit, while I'm charged £135 for a bit of paper that already existed.

[MrH]

Can we just sort the wheat from the chaf, you (your company) wish for a private document (FDR1) to be given to you free of charge so your company can  make a decision whether you pay out the insurance claim or not!!

The days of something for nothing have long gone.

[johno67]

Chris,

I think a lot of brigades now have at least someone within their fire safety departments who has some responsibility for looking at the causes of fires in commercial premises. I'm sure if you speak to them and explain your aims in helping to prevent this type of fire happening again they would be more than willing to get involved. They would also be in a position where they could possibly get more information than the FDR1 provided, which as Mike stated is essentially for the recording of statistics.

In defence of fire safety departments, I know that many have become weary of solicitors demanding previous copies of fire safety inspections reports and fire certificates when handling the purchasing of commercial premises for their clients. I know that this is not the case here and I would commend you on your objective.

It always, always comes down to communication. Speak to the right person in the right way and the world is your oyster, as they say

[Chris Houston]

Can we just sort the wheat from the chaf, you (your company) wish for a private document (FDR1) to be given to you free of charge so your company can  make a decision whether you pay out the insurance claim or not!!

The days od something for nothing have long gone.

Well, if you read my post above, I gave plenty examples of "somethings for nothing" but to get straight to the point, I am working for the people who own the building, I work for a broker, not an insurer.  I don't care if the claim is paid out (but some colleugues would, they will do their best to make sure it gets paid), my job is to make sure they have fewer fires.  Now that is something that benefits us all.