Height of fire alarm control panel

[John Dragon]

Anyone know of any regs giving height of control panels?
Sparkies have fitted one in a local res. home that you have almost to kneel down to read the LCD.
I cannot find much in 5839, can anyone help?

[Chris Houston]

Technically you could argue that the Display Screen Regulations could apply.  It needs to be checked daily by the user, so I would think it presents an injury risk to them if they have to get on their knees every day.

And I know my DSE comment will open up a whole can of worms, but my understanding (gained from my NEBOSH course) of the subject is that technically anything with a screen is covered by the regs and that includes calculators, displays on digital scales etc etc.

[Graeme]

Anyone know of any regs giving height of control panels?
Sparkies have fitted one in a local res. home that you have almost to kneel down to read the LCD.
I cannot find much in 5839, can anyone help?

no specific height but average person eye level.

good old sparkies again....When will the promise of competant contractors only doing fire ever kick in?

no evidence yet.

[Galeon]

Maybe it should state it in the BS , but you may find the boys who installed it were told to put it there for say astectics reasons , how many jobs over the years panels went in risers ,broom cupboards etc , with no mimic panel to compensate.

[Mr. P]

OH NO! I will never be able to tell the time again! Do I have to carry the R/A for my trusty/crusty casio watch?

[David Rooney]

Anyone know of any regs giving height of control panels?
Sparkies have fitted one in a local res. home that you have almost to kneel down to read the LCD.
I cannot find much in 5839, can anyone help?

No doubt some well meaning know it all has mentioned accessibility under DDA regs and has mounted the panel at 1000mm ffl just in case a dwarf is the most regular user of the control panel.

[Mike Buckley]

Technically DSE regs do apply to panels etc. if there is a display. However they only come into play if you are a 'user' i.e. you spend a substancial amount of time working on the equipment. Therefore if a person is spending about 4 continuous hours a day every day pushing buttons on the panel, DSE may well apply. On the other hand if there is someone continously pushing buttons on the fire panel for over four hours a day every day DSE is the least of the problems.

With regards to Mr P's casio watch have we got a serious fixation problem here?

[AnthonyB]

Perhaps we could have a separate thread on the most unusual place you've found a panel a la the 'most unusual fire' thread!

[John Dragon]

Same premises, I had a good look today and found a few other items of concern-

New addressable system fitted in new extension, there are no zonal LEDs, this is the only panel I have ever seen without these; I know that they are required by 5839, is it common not to have them instlled in a new panel? I understand that they are an optional extra in "Advanced Electronics" panels.

The new extension has 20+ bedrooms on each of 2 floors; the building is divided into 3 main zones (plus stairwell zones), each main zone covers 2 floors! Again not allowed or am I mistaken?

[Graeme]

Same premises, I had a good look today and found a few other items of concern-

New addressable system fitted in new extension, there are no zonal LEDs, this is the only panel I have ever seen without these; I know that they are required by 5839, is it common not to have them instlled in a new panel? I understand that they are an optional extra in "Advanced Electronics" panels.

The new extension has 20+ bedrooms on each of 2 floors; the building is divided into 3 main zones (plus stairwell zones), each main zone covers 2 floors! Again not allowed or am I mistaken?

Advanced sell them as an EN54 panel which it's not a requirement to have zone led's. If you want a 5839 panel then you have to shell out more for an led card.

see this done by alot of companies trying to save a few quid on missing the led cards.

I think they should come with the led cards and keyswitch as standard.

[John Dragon]

Thanks for that Graeme,
My understanding of 5839 is that zonal LEDs are a requirement, does this mean that an EN54 panel cannot be used on a fire alarm to 5839? (This is not a deliberately facetious question, I just couldn't phrase it better!).

With regard to the zone question, I see many (usually sparky fitted) systems with zones on more than one level, but it doesn't sit well with me to have this in a large (new) nursing home, any comments anyone?

[kurnal]

With regard to the zone question, I see many (usually sparky fitted) systems with zones on more than one level, but it doesn't sit well with me to have this in a large (new) nursing home, any comments anyone?

Thats right John- totally unacceptable - it makes the fire procedures a nonsense. With 2 staff on duty, 40 totally dependent residents, the staff are expected to evacuate the affected zone in 2.5 minutes ( thats impossible in itself) and they have no chance if they have to search different parts of the building in order to verify the alarm before deciding the priorities for evacuation.

[Ricardo]

Anyone know of any regs giving height of control panels?
Sparkies have fitted one in a local res. home that you have almost to kneel down to read the LCD.
I cannot find much in 5839, can anyone help?

John
Just been looking at BS5839-6, which I guess is not the part you are refering to in your post, but just out of interest it gives a height in Clause 17.2,(recommendations applicable to all control & indicating equipment)
" normally sited so that all controls are at least 1.5 metres above floor level, to prevent casual tampering by children"

[John Dragon]

Thanks for that.
This system is a part 1 though.
Sparkies are still refusing to move the panel, I guess they will move it when the owner refuses to accept it as is!

[David Rooney]

Same premises, I had a good look today and found a few other items of concern-

New addressable system fitted in new extension, there are no zonal LEDs, this is the only panel I have ever seen without these; I know that they are required by 5839, is it common not to have them instlled in a new panel? I understand that they are an optional extra in "Advanced Electronics" panels.

The new extension has 20+ bedrooms on each of 2 floors; the building is divided into 3 main zones (plus stairwell zones), each main zone covers 2 floors! Again not allowed or am I mistaken?

I've had the same argument.

If the spec says it needs to comply with BS 5839 then basically it doesn't and it should be changed.

When are the appropriate authorities going to have the balls to tell us all we are either complying with EN standards or we are not. All this crap and confusion around meeting either BS or ENs is a pain in the proverbial 'arris, especially when the spec bleats on about complying with EN54 but goes on to say it wants a 5839 commissioning certificate....... do you write the lack of zonal LEDs as a variation??

Why do we make everything so bloody complicated??!!