Hotel bedroom doors..and other stuff

[Mushy]

Hi all

I mentioned in another thread that I stayed at a hotel last week and being an ex firey probably am a bit too inquisitive!

I'd like to share with you this hotel layout

This hotel has three floors and the cellar

All the bedrooms (16 in total) were on the second and first floor but did not have self closers, which I thought was strange because any fire in the bedrooms would take the corridor out if the door was left open on escaping....there was a fire door seperating the long corridor (about 30 metres), effectively splitting it into two but that was wedged open by a purpose brass wedge built into the floor! (of which there were many of these devices in the hotel...a bit like a brass wheel built into the floor)

At either end of the corridor on the second floor (where I was staying), were stairs  that lead to the first floor

 then on the first floor there was accommodation stairs at one end that was protected at the top and open to all and sundry at the bottom, and protected lobby area at the other end that led through a door to an external stair...

so in effect if a fire occurred on the ground floor that took out the accommodation stairs,  all the occupants of the upper floors would be directed by signage to this one external stairway...which had a platform leading to the stairs that was like square metal mesh and the squares were very wide...so anyone in heels (not me!) would have a job negotiating it)

However you could bypass the external stairs and travel down a protected corridor that led to a leisure centre reception and another final exit door...no stairs here...the corridor must be on a gradient and goes from first to ground floor

It had a recently installed L2 system and E/L

What's the general opinion on the fire safety here...although I may not have explained it very well.

Incidentally the bedroom corridors had a settee in each of them

[Midland Retty]

Hi Mushy

Just going on what you have explained so far and without seeing the premises I would comments as follows.

On the issue of self closing devices...One train of thought is that guests will keep their bedroom doors shut when theyr'e occupied for privacy / security reasons.  It is also assumed that they will lock their bedroom doors should they pop out and therefore self closers aren't required.

Thats said of course I personally feel that management should consider what may happen if a guest does leave their door open for whatever reason. Plus the HMG Sleeping Accomodation guide (and I realise it is just a guide) recommends that they are fitted. I personally prefer to see self closing devices fitted, however other officers / consultants etc may disagree and again its down to risk assessment.

The means of escape you describe, so long as travel distances, exit widths etc are built to take the numbers expected to use them, are well signed etc, doesn't sound too bad.

As you say if the accomodation stairs were unavailable during a fire and guests can turn their backs and use the other exit is there a problem?

External staircases if well managed and maintained are ok, they should be  non slippy, appropriately lit, structurally sound, cleared of snow and leaves etc, protected from the elements blah blah blah As you say the metal grid may hamper someone wearing heels and that may be something that needs to be addressed.

Corridors with settees in them? strictly speaking escape routes should be kept sterile, but again is one settee a problem? does is obstruct MOE? is there any significant ignition sources nearby? are the setees in a dead end condition? Is there any evidence of illicit smoking in common areas? if the answer to those question is no then again I wouldn't be overly concerned.

It's hard to comment accurately without seeing the premises but based on what you have described that would be my initial response.

[nearlythere]

Hi Mushy

Just going on what you have explained so far and without seeing the premises I would comments as follows.

On the issue of self closing devices...One train of thought is that guests will keep their bedroom doors shut when theyr'e occupied for privacy / security reasons.  It is also assumed that they will lock their bedroom doors should they pop out and therefore self closers aren't required.

Thats said of course I personally feel that management should consider what may happen if a guest does leave their door open for whatever reason. Plus the HMG Sleeping Accomodation guide (and I realise it is just a guide) recommends that they are fitted. I personally prefer to see self closing devices fitted, however other officers / consultants etc may disagree and again its down to risk assessment.

The means of escape you describe, so long as travel distances, exit widths etc are built to take the numbers expected to use them, are well signed etc, doesn't sound too bad.

As you say if the accomodation stairs were unavailable during a fire and guests can turn their backs and use the other exit is there a problem?

External staircases if well managed and maintained are ok, they should be  non slippy, appropriately lit, structurally sound, cleared of snow and leaves etc, protected from the elements blah blah blah As you say the metal grid may hamper someone wearing heels and that may be something that needs to be addressed.

Corridors with settees in them? strictly speaking escape routes should be kept sterile, but again is one settee a problem? does is obstruct MOE? is there any significant ignition sources nearby? are the setees in a dead end condition? Is there any evidence of illicit smoking in common areas? if the answer to those question is no then again I wouldn't be overly concerned.

It's hard to comment accurately without seeing the premises but based on what you have described that would be my initial response.

Me , myself and I are of the opinion that in the case of a two stairway premises or part thereof, where one is accommodation, the other should be protected as if it was a single stairway situation, i.e. FR lobby approach.
What say the panel?

[kurnal]

Me , myself and I are of the opinion that in the case of a two stairway premises or part thereof, where one is accommodation, the other should be protected as if it was a single stairway situation, i.e. FR lobby approach.
What say the panel?

Thats three against one then!  

We are of the opinion that self closers are needed on bedroom doors because we cannot be sure that in the panic of a fire persons will not leave their bedroom door open after they flee thus placing others at risk. There is case history on this in the good old days of the FP Act.

Otherwise it can be very difficult to make old buildings fully comply with the code- they need to be as safe as is reasonably practicable. With travel distances as lengthy as these it really would warrant two protected stairs but silk purses made of pigs ears are always of a poor standard. Thats why its really dissapointing that despite the weaknesses of the design and layout the management are still wedging key doors open.

[Mushy]

Thanks for that everyone...

this hotel had three open fires (burning wood) on the ground floor, one in the main reception housing the accommodation stairs...I pointed out to my friend that the fire guard was too small as it wasn't completely covering the fire and any sparks could fly out....also the wood bucket was right next to it...can anyone remember what the BS number is for fire/spark guards and should these guards be secured to the fireplace?



ps she is used to me by now and realises I'm an inquisitive old ex- firey!

[Mushy]

tried to google fire guard BS and if a hotel fireguard should be fixed but nowt comes up...or is my google different to everyone elses