Sheltered housing again!

[jokar]

So what is the answer?  If you decide that the compartmentation is not good enough for a defend in place strategy you end up with simultaneous or PHE.  Who then, with no warden controls the evacuation?  Where do they go on evacuation? Can the residents actually evacuate within a specified time frame at night?  Do they saty in their rooms and await the FRS arrival within whatever minutes IRMP comes up with?

[Ashley Wood]

I agree Joker with your points. The problem is that housing associations and others are cutting back on thier manning levels due to cost and it is all to easy to impliment a stay put policy.

[Midland Retty]

So what is the answer?  If you decide that the compartmentation is not good enough for a defend in place strategy you end up with simultaneous or PHE.  Who then, with no warden controls the evacuation?  Where do they go on evacuation? Can the residents actually evacuate within a specified time frame at night?  Do they saty in their rooms and await the FRS arrival within whatever minutes IRMP comes up with?

But you would agree that if the compartmentation is not adequate for a stay put then it should be a Sim or PHE evac.

Who would marshall it? ... who knows? themselves? should it not be down to the residents (if abled bodied and able to self evacuate) to leave the building?

What about bed ridden residents though? WHat about those who cant self evacuate?

Defend in place then? Yes - but you will need 60 mins FR - and you will need to be able to guarantee that its not breached anywhere to ensure maximum protection to individual residents and thus truly forfil the purpose of a defend in place strategy

[Midland Retty]

So what is the answer?  If you decide that the compartmentation is not good enough for a defend in place strategy you end up with simultaneous or PHE.  Who then, with no warden controls the evacuation?  Where do they go on evacuation? Can the residents actually evacuate within a specified time frame at night?  Do they saty in their rooms and await the FRS arrival within whatever minutes IRMP comes up with?

But you would agree that if the compartmentation is not adequate for a stay put then it should be a Sim or PHE evac.

Who would marshall it? ... who knows? themselves? should it not be down to the residents (if abled bodied and able to self evacuate) to leave the building?

What about bed ridden residents though? WHat about those who cant self evacuate?

Defend in place then? Yes - but you will need 60 mins FR - and you will need to be able to guarantee that its not breached anywhere to ensure maximum protection to individual residents and thus truly forfil the purpose of a defend in place strategy

[val]

It may interest you that CFOA is in the process of setting up a representative stakeholder group to try and address all the issues that are being discussed. It is true that schemes are providing more and more personal care, (one way or another), the residents often are completely unable to self rescue and managers are a dying breed. Are we really saying that the best we can come up with is to tell ederly people, or, in some cases, very confused younger people, to stay in a burning building and hope the management has thoroughly checked the compartmentation.

[colin todd]

Yes I think we are, valerie. A lot of sheltered housing is simply a special case of a blaock of flats and that is what we do there. If it isnt like a block of flats you need to tailor make a solution. We have done lots and it just needs careful thought.

[kurnal]

It may interest you that CFOA is in the process of setting up a representative stakeholder group to try and address all the issues that are being discussed. It is true that schemes are providing more and more personal care, (one way or another), the residents often are completely unable to self rescue and managers are a dying breed. Are we really saying that the best we can come up with is to tell ederly people, or, in some cases, very confused younger people, to stay in a burning building and hope the management has thoroughly checked the compartmentation.

It would also be a good idea to compare the differences in fire safety legislation North and South of the Scottish border and whether this has led to any percievable differences in fire deaths, losses or injuries.