Sounders in common stair

[novascot]

Hello all,
a pub at ground floor with 3 floors of flats with sleeping accomodation above has fitted AFD to give early warning to sleeping occupants in out of hours.(Relevant Persons IN AND AROUND the relevant premises) 75Db at each bed head is required. How many sounders required? If each door reduces the Db by 20, a minimum at the sounder would be 115Db. This in a common close would blow your ears off.
   Any suggestions?

[jokar]

It is more likely that the sound attenuation through a close fitting fire door will be 30 plus decibels but the standard requires 75 at the bedhead, so yes over 100 will be required.  The alternative is to have sounders in each room to get the 75 db standard.

[TickityBoo]

You are looking at a sounder in the person's bedroom to be sure of 75dB, but are we really suggesting that all domestic premises above "relevent premises" need to be considered as having "relevant persons" , given the " as far as reasonably practibable" qualification?

[TickityBoo]

And to add to my last comment... can you imagine how many premises we are talking about here!..domestic premises above non-domestic premises are hardly unique and have "relevent persons" usually living above the "relevant premises"...But the important factor is...do we think this is worth pursuing in the pubic interest giving due consideration to the "reasonably practicable qualification"?

[kurnal]

This may be straying off topic but it may be relevant. What fire separation is there between the commercial premises (pub) and the flats? And what is the fire separation and means of escape within the flats? If it is not possible to implement a "Stay Put" policy in the flats because of problems with the structure or layout of the building then 75dBA at each bedhead is what is required.

As so many hotels have found (and as the BS recognises) its best to have many sounders spread throughout the building than a couple of mega blasters in the stairway. Detector sounders in rooms (or sounder bases for detectors ) have to be the best way forward. Dont overlook the maximum recommended sound level of 120 dBa at any normally accessible point in the building.

[Galeon]

You also have to consider disorientation of persons on the staircase , good even distribution of sound (compliant) is what should be designed.
I have lost count of morons who try to save money with the practice of the one in the hall at full belt to try and achieve the levels in another room .

[CivvyFSO]

I take it that this is in Scotland?

That being that case, at any time when the pub is open the occupants of the flat will be in the pub?

[Midland Retty]

Not sure you can say that Civvy!!

For what it is worth it makes sense to have combined sounders / detectors in each room as already mentioned. This is because:-

1) It has been found that residents with minor hearing impairments may not be able to hear the sounders from common areas whilst in their flats even though required sound levels have been achieved

2) If doors are replaced in common areas or to the flats it may affect sound levels from the sounders in common areas (this is a factor which often gets forgotten)

[afterburner]

Schedule 2 of the F(S) Act requires measures to give warning in case of fire.  It does not specify sounding devices. There are options.

Silent strobes may be a possible answer or the type of vibrating alerter used for hearing disabilities. 

[FSO]

Are these flats or hotel type bedrooms?