Costing of remedial fire safety works

[WG]

Hi,
Can anyone help I have a number of buildings a mixture of schools offices and sleeping risks, but what I want is a ball park figure for estimating £ per square metre for fire safety remedial works including all the usual compartmentation/fire alarms but excluding all the management arrangements. This is purely for estimating for budgetary reasons.

I know the fire risk assessments will identify the significant finding etc. and ultimately a schedule of works / performance spec but unfortunately the assessments that have been completed are not suitable and sufficient and I need to get a steer on the cost implications whilst the assessments are reviewed with the correct brief given to the assessor, possibly there may be various formulas can anyone help

URGENTLY

[kurnal]

Unfortunately I do not know of any such general formula.

I usually break the findings into headings - costs for installation of fire alarms, emergency lighting, sprinklers, installations of fire resisting ceilings and repairs to fire doors can be costed with enough accuracy for budgetary purposes but I dont think you could come up with a genereric cost per sq metre type formula.

[CivvyFSO]

whilst the assessments are reviewed with the correct brief given to the assessor

Are you going to tell the assessor what he should find?

[kurnal]

I would expect and hope that WG means he wants to tell the assessor to include costings for any recommendations that he makes. Something that is common in most H&S risk assessments but quite unusual in the fire industry.

[Northern Uproar]

I have a scan from an Architects Journal article on this from April 09 (so a bit out of date). Is there anything specific you were after?

[SeaBass]

I don't think you can do this for the type of works that may or may not arise from an FRA. There are just too many unknowns.

It would be different if you were looking at a sprinkler system or a fire detection and alarm system as it's possible to state that a certain type of building requires a certain type of installation and that on average such an installation costs £XX per square meter to install. Multiplying this figure by the overall square meterage gives project planners a rough idea of the costs ( order of magnitude) on which to base their submittals for budgetary costing for the client to approve, or not as the case may be.

I've never come across this system being used for trying to estimate the wide range and scope of works that can arise from a condition survey, which in essence is what a FRA is.   

[Speyside]

I know of a system operated by a FRA company in Manchester that will price up automatically as the assessor inputs data in to his palm top but even that system has to have raw data inputted.

ie a door leaf needs replacing and a closer, the computer program will generate a price for those jobs based on standard information on pricing. Obviously it has limitations but it can quickly produce a fairly accurate price for the remedial works.

As far as a general guide price system is concerned I am sorry I don't know of anything that will assist you in your quest for a formula.

[AnthonyB]

I assume they are all single occupancy, otherwise you have the added complication of working out who pays for what.

From my experience of organising remedial works it would be dangerous to try and do a generic square meter pricing as there are far too many hidden factors and you will massively under-budget.

The scope of works is too wide - the same sq meter may in one building have to pay for a Cat M coverage in another L1 & beams, in one a couple of closers and a few metres of intumescent strips and another full underdrawing to 30 minutes FR.

You need a premises specific schedule of works and from that you get the costings.

Also who you use to do the works can make a difference, particularly in alarms, to as much as 50% of the project cost.

The FRA's you have don't sound accurate enough to draw up a spec from, bite the bullet and get it done correctly - if you rush this it could end u[ costing the earth and still not being right.

[buster1]

We have a system that gives a model standard solution for each type of archetype building,  we give a schedule of rates and also quote for the works, for example replacement of old for new intumescent strips with cold smoke seals would be £65 per single door leaf etc, same for replacing a single door leaf with frame £..... double door leaf £ ...... ,etc Fire stopping would be on a schedule of rates according to size of breech etc. we have worked a number of projects with this agreement. If you require any further advice give me a call 07917061646

[AnthonyB]

That's a more achievable way of estimating I agree, far more realistic than "everything imaginable per square metre"

[SeaBass]

But surely, if your automated system is registering and pricing each issue identified, then you have to inspect every door, sign, extinguisher, call point, detector, sprinkler head, pump set,  emergency light, fire wall, penetration seal, etc. etc.  Therefore, by definition, you are no longer carrying out a fire risk assessment but conducting a fire safety audit, which is a completely different animal primarily aimed at increasing your income rather than reducing the risks within your clients premises to an acceptable level.   

[Davo]

Ruby


Agree, one shouldn't carry out a RA with ££££££ in the back of your mind.
Equally, the RA should be good enough to tell you whats required but not to spec level- you say you need an L1, you dont say X detectors, Y sounders etc
Get three fixed price quotes and ask for previous jobs so you can inspect the quality of the workmanship


davo

[Galeon]

Hi,
Can anyone help I have a number of buildings a mixture of schools offices and sleeping risks, but what I want is a ball park figure for estimating £ per square metre for fire safety remedial works including all the usual compartmentation/fire alarms but excluding all the management arrangements. This is purely for estimating for budgetary reasons.

I know the fire risk assessments will identify the significant finding etc. and ultimately a schedule of works / performance spec but unfortunately the assessments that have been completed are not suitable and sufficient and I need to get a steer on the cost implications whilst the assessments are reviewed with the correct brief given to the assessor, possibly there may be various formulas can anyone help

URGENTLY

As the boys have commented on - this is where its all gonna go wrong.

[buster1]

We as a company are more than willing to carry out a full survey on the back of the fire risk assessment, we do not do both.