Author Topic: ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation  (Read 8595 times)

Offline kurnal

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ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation
« on: March 03, 2011, 06:11:38 PM »
Please can anybody explain the background to the following change in the ADB.

The 2000 edition note to paragragh 1.9 discussed fire alarms and detection in flats designed for student accommodation and suggested that if the flats were fully compliant in respect of compartmentation  of flats automatic detection in the flat only would satisfy the requirements of the Building Regulations  and no detection and alarm systems need be installed in common areas unless a full evacuation is required.

The 2006 edition  changed this and recommended that this only applied where groups of up to 6 students occupied a flat.

Why was this threshold of up to 6 students set?

Is the threshold relevant in the light of the Birmingham /Victoria Hall case?

http://www.carillionplc.com/tps/news/2009/07_css.asp

 


Offline wee brian

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Re: ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 10:24:58 AM »
6 people sharing a flat is a bit like a normal flat - so treat it like one.

A few more people and it gets a bit more like a dormitory. 

Theres nothing magic about 6, it's just a reasonable number. (that we've been using for a while)

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 12:15:08 PM »
I agree with Brian, they needed a cut-off somewhere. The corridor also starts to get a bit long to meet the usual ADB requirements once you start having more than 6.

Offline wee brian

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Re: ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 02:52:01 PM »
Interesting case. Sounds right to me but Magistrates dont set legal precedents (I think)

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 02:47:07 PM »
Quite right.

Let 'em have it as an apartment. That means that as soon as they go over 30m they need to sprinkler them now.

Offline kurnal

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Re: ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 11:06:34 AM »
Yes I agree with both it just strikes me that the fire evacuation strategy of the building will not really be determined by an arbitrary number of students per flat, either the means of escape and compartmentation will be safe to support a stay put policy or it will not.

Does putting an extra student or two in an individual cluster flat (or two in a bed!) suddenly mean that if a fire occurs in that flat it is much more likely to spread from that flat to affect the means of escape from other flats to the extent that we must evacuate the whole building where with one student less it is safe to stay put?

Wee B thanks, I dont mean to nit pick and criticise the authors, its impossible for them to forsee how a simple phrase intended to offer guidance and context can be taken literally at its face value and some people try and enforce exactly what it says on the page. Just feeling grumpy at the moment, having been brought in to try and mediate, educate and find a way forward for the RP of one newly completed building of this type.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: ADB, fire alarms and student accommodation
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 09:56:39 AM »
Kurnal

Building them in this way alleviates quite a portion of the responsibility of the RP. Now anything beyond the firefighting lobby door can be accepted as domestic, so the RP has no real responsibility for the conditions found beyond that point. That only leaves the lobbies and staircase under the true control of the RP as far as tthe RRFSO is concerned.

I have seen many variations of the fire alarm system in these sorts of premises;

You can go down the code compliant route of self contained apartments, and the only detection required in the common areas would be to operate any automatic smoke vent.
You can up the ante a little and connect the "smoke vent" detector to a concierge/security/monitoring station.
You can go even further, stick a heat detector in the corridor common to the bedrooms, and have that inform the concierge/security so there is pre-warning and time for investigation prior to losing the lobby.
You can go EVEN FURTHER, and have it a little like a hotel, i.e. L2 system, with HD in each common corridor and the kitchen as above. (Just in in hotel bedrooms) Clusters still have their own part 6 system, with no contact to anywhere else to cut down on false alarms, but the HD activation initiates an evac of that floor or the entire building. (Quite unnecessary IMO)

What we should be doing in my opinion is; Pushing the sprinkler angle and getting trade offs for it. i.e. Part 6 system within the cluster, residential sprinkler system, reduce FR to structure. Activation of sprinkler system alerts concierge/security/monitoring station. (Doing away with any need for a part 1 system) I think some of the owners are missing a good angle here, if you were paying for your loved ones to stay in a building with hundreds of other students, would you be willing to pay a few extra quid to have them in a sprinklered building?