Future of the Fire Service

[Mike Buckley]

I have just seen the government has issued more reports on the Fire Service see:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/fire/firerescueservice/firefutures/

Although I have not yet read them, from the titles it looks as if, following the failure of the Fire Control Project and the centralised purchasing, the government is lining itself up for a second bite at the cherry.

[AnthonyB]

Reading one of the documents they seriously want to push forward the option of the Fire Service taking over:

- the ambulance service
- building control
- environmental health
- trading standards
- traffic control (a la the almost but not quiet defunct US Fire/Police companies)

[Mike Buckley]

What, they missed out dog catcher?

[nearlythere]

What about pest control as well?
And litter warden?

[SeaBass]

A number seem to struggle with their core business so expanding their remit will be an interesting development to watch. Particularly with the impending financial restrictions and the differentials between uniformed and non uniformed staff.

[afterburner]

There has been a suggestion that Mountain Rescue should come under the Fire & Rescue Service, rather than being a Police Force undertaking.

[jokar]

The difficulty with that would be that because of the H&S considerations they would not be allowed to do the job anymore!!

You want to what?  Go up a mountain full of ice and snow and hang over a crevice to rescue someone and carry them down on a sled, I don't think so.  Have you done a DRA.

[nearlythere]

And then there's all the additional gear and PPE.
Difficult to climb mountains in wellies.

[afterburner]

Firefighters wouldn't do this, the existing Mountain Rescue Teams would transfer from Police function & control to F&RS function and deployment.

[kurnal]

I thought most mountain rescue services were charities?

Is it relevant for the fire and rescue service be the umbrella organisation for all rescue services? Many of these organisations arose through a local need to cover specific risks. Many developed particular skills , methods and use specialist equipment.

Its one thing to transfer mobilisation and communication from one service to another, delivery of the service itself is not so easily transferred. How wide does one cast the net in terms of rescue services?
Lifeguard services?
Cave rescue?
Air sea rescue?
Lifeboats?
Underwater rescue?
Mines rescue?
Animal rescue?

If funding, management and operations were transferred on a national basis I think it would be a disaster.  Each local unit, each so important in its local arena would become but a speck on the landscape.

Heres an idea, instead of changing everything wholesale, like GPs running hospitals and fire service running building control or mountain rescue, why dont we first focus on running our own core service in a really first class, efficient and cost effective way before before eyeing up someone else's manor.  

[nearlythere]

In Dave's Big Society if something is being done for little or no cost to the government, sorrry - you and me, then it will do. There is a very costly expenses system to maintain, at all cost.

[Midland Retty]

I thought most mountain rescue services were charities?
Is it relevant for the fire and rescue service be the umbrella organisation for all rescue services?

Currently these voluntary groups /charities can only be formally deployed at the request of the police. And once deployed they come under the "command" of the Police. In reality however the Police co-ordinate the efforts of the vol. rescue organisations, rather than command them.

I think the idea is that because the Fire & Rescue Service is (according to several government documents) classed as the primary land rescue agency in the UK it probably makes sense that these voluntary groups should come under the "command" of the fire service, and not the police.

It is not that they will come under Fire & Rescue "banner" or "umbrella", the status quo will effectively remain, charitiable rescue organisations (CROs) will continue to operate independently, they will just be co-ordinated by the Fire & Rescue Service at major incidents instead of the Police. Also some fire services have USAR and SAR teams in various guises which could assist or compliment the CROs team, plus alot of the kit carried by FRS could be useful to the CRO or vice versa, plus the CRO and FRS teams would have similar skills, alot of rescue techniques are afterall interchangeable in various scenarios.

[kurnal]

I was responsible for setting up one of the earliest fire service rope rescue teams in 1989 and I am proud to say that the training manual  ans safety systems written by my team has only fairly  recently been superceded. We found at the time that local mountain rescue teams had widely differing equipment and roles, and the range of kit we had to  provide to meet a much broader spectrum of scenarios was way beyond  theirs.

What was most frustrating is that for many incidents in which our services could have been of use, the police did not think of calling us out and instead would call in a mountain rescue teams based on volunteers who, despite doing a great job, took up to two hours to muster and travel to the scene. So in this respect bringing them under the co-ordination of the fire and rescue services would make sense.

Actually in my patch the new Buxton community fire station currently under construction will also be the base of the Derbyshire Cave Rescue and Buxton Mountain rescue organisations so it makes absolute sense for the co-ordination to switch locally to the fire and rescue service.

[Midland Retty]

Absolutely, that encompasses the spirit behind this proposed new arrangement.

I realise there are regional differences, as you pointed out your rope rescue team's practices differed from the local mountain rescue. But I'm led to believe standardisation between agencies is getting better across the board, and things like locating the cave / mountain rescue teams at a fire station will only improve cross pollentation of ideas, working procedures and co-operation.

[afterburner]

Cracking answers MR,

yes that is the crux of the discussion, the provision of Mountain Rescue was either done by the RAF (whose real purpose was to go after downed air crew and who used 'civvy rescues' as real life training exercises), or by the Police who have a great interest in how any fatality became a fatality (crime or accident?). Now the discussion is based on the overall 'management' (in the loosest application of the term) of landward rescue activities.

This is nothing to do with firefighters in boots and slickers skating around on mountain tops, but the activities of F&RS Line Rescue Teams (or whatever new monicur the are currently hiding under) and Mountain Rescue does seem to raise a degree of harmony.