Fire Authorities and so called arms length companies

[William 29]

Sorry to raise this one again, I'm sure there are many threads on this.  I came across recently a fire authority that when they issue “letters of non-compliance” are including information on the arms length company that they are linked to for fire risk assessments, FRA training and fire marshal training etc.

I can’t see how this does not breach trading standards?  Apparently fire authorities can only recommend non-profit making companies for FRA services etc.  The arms length company is non profit making due to the money being reinvested into “fire authority community services”.

I feel this should be taken up formally with the relevant industry bodies but I’m not sure who would lead on this?  Any ideas or thoughts would be welcome.
Thanks

[kurnal]

Graham Ellicott CEO of the FIA has done a lot of campaigning on this. Theres a fair bit of info on the website.
http://www.fia.uk.com/en/Information/Details/index.cfm/Trading-on-the-fire-and-rescue-brand

http://www.fia.uk.com/en/Information/Details/index.cfm/FIA%20CEO%20Speaks%20at%20Westminster%20All%20Party%20Parliamentary%20Fire%20Safety%20and%20Rescue%20Group%20Seminar


http://www.fia.uk.com/filemanager/root/site_assets/news/fia_focus/focus_17_published.pdf

http://www.fia.uk.com/filemanager/root/site_assets/news/fia_focus/focus_23_summer_2012_final.pdf

[William 29]

Thanks Kurnal

[Kelsall]

William

Graham already has info on this. The FRS concerned is investigating and a response will be given very soon. I am sure their legal team will be working overtime just to make sure they aren't breaking any rules. However the potential for embarrassment is very real.

The sooner the RP guidance from the competence council is available the better. This will at least give the FRS no excuse; they will have to promote best practice to the RP.

[Kelsall]

This from the FRS concerned.

Having had the matter investigated I can confirm that the literature that you refer to was sent to the premises as a supplement to a letter confirming an appointment for one of our Officers to visit the premises to carry out an audit/inspection. This is within our current procedures as we include this as part of any general correspondence. This has been recorded within our Community Safety Database. It was not included with any type of notice that was subsequently served on the premises.

I think this is confirmation of an FRS using privileged information to sell the services of its arms length company.

To me it's even worse than an 'after' inspection sales tactics.

Dear Mr RP you are due an audit by the FRS and by the way here is a company that can help you pass!

[kurnal]

I agree with you and it also begs the question as to the use of the community safety database as a tool used to support marketing of what should be seperate "arms length" organisation.

[nearlythere]

Do we all have access to the community safety database? Is there an issue with data protection where it is being used for purposes other than initially intended?

[Golden]

Oh look another one ....

http://www.dsfire.gov.uk/CommercialServices/RedOne/RedOneLimited.cfm?siteCategoryId=15&T1ID=97

not sure about the use of the FRS logo on the website of a commercial organisation - can I have it on mine too as surely I have enough right to endorsement by the FRS as my competitors? Many other issues with this (website and organisation) but to be honest I've got better things to do with my time than list them here but just thought I'd bring this to your attention.

[Mike Buckley]

After a quick look they don't seem to be offering things like Fire Risk Assessments, just training and testing facilities.

[Golden]

They seem to be offering almost anything that you may (or may not) want - which seems a bit daunting. I agree it was mainly about training and fire cover but its an arms length company and I get the feeling there may be some expansion if there is a need.

[Kelsall]

After a quick look they don't seem to be offering things like Fire Risk Assessments, just training and testing facilities.

They do offer fire risk assessment and that’s a worry for me, as the fire risk assessor is being given a second party approval by the enforcement authority that could prosecute him. 

Could the RP use the fire service recommendation as a defence in any legal action? Yes I think they could, and if so, isn’t that ethically wrong.

‘You will be OK with this provider but if it does go wrong, we will not stand by any recommendation we have made and we will prosecute you anyway’