Fire URN numbers

[Freddie Flintoff]

I heard a rumour today that after the issue of a URN for a fire system that if the system continues to generate false alarms and is taken to a level 3 that it will take a minimum of 6 months before any sort of response can be restored. This would obviously have a serious effect on many businesses and seems extreme if action is taken.

Can anyone comment if this is fact or merely scaremongering?

Thanks

[colin todd]

All you need to do is convince your friendly neighbourhood FRS that fings is better and you are home and dry.

[dave bev]

but it seems as if some frs's might not actually want to do that part of their job anymore? cos theyve got far more 'sexy' things to do, so convincing them may become a lot harder as more individuals get the opportunity to show just how important they are, and how unimportant those who have invested mighty sums of money in ensuring there is a safe place of work for their employees (bless 'em all).

[colin todd]

283,000 false alarms a year Davey is an awful lot of jobs for the boys. Now, Davey, you know me-every time I pay my rates I glow with pleasure knowing that some of it goes to the lads. Notwithstanding the pleasure derived from this, is it not in the interests of the public (who might be mowed down by a machine), the ratepayer and the boys themsleves who might be roused from their wee sleep at night to go attend the false alarms, or from their real places of work in the case of the retained lads, to reduce false alarms from persistent offenders. I am sure even M the W would not want to protect jobs by attendance at false alarms,,,,,, OR WOULD HE?

[dave bev]

colin, the points you make are all valid but need balance , thats all i ever ask for !

reducing false alarms - great
not attending where required - stupidity

a balance between them needs to be found - and it needs to be an agreed solution on the basis of managing the process AND the risk.

going to false alarms? we only ever come back from them, but then again youre pretty good at expanding your poetic and literary license

dave bev

[colin todd]

Davey, Thats all very well, but does not address how to reduce the 280,000 false alarms. If the rate of false alarms has been so high as to invoke the CFOA policy, it is likely that the next call will be a false alarm too. You only get to the no response, after a period of reduced attendance and no doubt visits from your friendly neighbourhood I/o. Do not forget that the policy applies to remotely monitored systems. There is no legislative requirement for such monitoring in the first place. The policies you need to worry about are not the URN related ones, its those of brigades like Somerset and Oxon and other brigades that call challenge 999 calls to fire alarm actuating. Try to stop the invasion of Poland and not fight the whole of World War.

[dave bev]

if someone realy wants to reduce the numbers of false alarms they may need to start to engage the footsoldiers they have left. i say footsoldiers cos there aint many naval types left i gather?

[andyrew]

We have just recieved our first request for URN's for a site in Grampian Fire & Rescues area.

Has anyone been contacted by any of the Fire & Rescue services to confirm they are bringing this in and when?

Also they are comparing this with the security URN system, but that has the added level in that you have to have SSAIB/NSI approval to get the URN. As the system sits at present any Tom, Dick or Harry (sorry if that's your name and you have 3rd party approval) can and do install fire alarm systems that are there for the protection of life. Security is mainly there for the protection of the building and it's contents.

Surely it would be better to do it properly than to do it half heartedly. Having looked at a couple of web sites fpr the services in Scotland none have anything listed, in fact only one had a single reference to it but with no dates etc when it would come into force.

[Graeme]

sounds like security where you get so many false alarms in a set period you are taken off Police response.
They brought confirmed into action,which is the fire equivelent of coincidence.(two detectors in the same zone to generate fire signal)

[andyrew]

That's exactly what it is.

I have spoken with Grampian Fire & Rescue and they are bringing it into force for 1st April (is this an April Fools Gag) in that all signaling systems will require a URN for response in the future. I asked them how they were informing the end users and service companies and they said they weren't, the first they will know about it is a letter through the door after an activation (that is how they identifying remote signalling), so if they don't have any activations they won't know about them. The UR will cost the client £35 and any major changes to the system or change of details of the client will involve same charge (same as security).

They are the first but after trawling all Scottish Fire & Rescue sites no one has mentioned it. I have sent out e-mails to each asking when and if the policy will be brought into force.

Grampian are also going to enfore the fact that olny third party approvals service companies will be able to offer maintenance to the end user.

It is nice of them to promote when the policy is coming into force particularly when it is less than a month away. Although I do agree it is a good idea, it would have been nice to at least have put the info on their own website.

[Gavin]

All you need to do is convince your friendly neighbourhood FRS that fings is better and you are home and dry.

you can do this by the following

Demonstrate measures to reduce false activations to have your FRS response restored which will include arranging appropriate maintenance on the alarm by a qualified engineer.  This may require significant retesting of your alarm system to ensure it operates as originally intended.

Demonstrate competence as a responsible person as described in 5839.  this person should supervise all matters pertaining to the fire alarm system.  this person should arrange suitable investigation and, if appropriate, action to be taken every time a false alarm occurs.

Revise the risk assesment and fire safety management arrangements for premises to take account of any change and tell your insurance company.

if there is a real problamtic system you will be asked to prepare and submit a written improvement plan for the reduction of false alarms and the FRS could use its statutory enforcement powers in order to improve the fire safety in the premises (get a new alarm)

The changes to the policy will phased in over the next 2 years (started april 2005) with all RMFA's registered by march 2008.

to add to Colins stats in 2003 there were an amazing 479,500 false alarms which breaks down to 1313 a day.