The Crown Estate

[Olig7]

Good Afternoon all,

I wonder if anyone has ever come across a property under 'escheat' that is 'owned' (in the loosest sense of the word) by The Crown Estate who disclaim all responsibility for its upkeep and management? (somewhat understandably)

In essence I have a communal area in a purpose built block of flats, three storeys high, comprising of 12 individual flats. The flats are on circa 99yr leases with various leaseholders who in turn let them to the current tenants. As the Ltd company, who previously owned the freehold, dissolved back in the 90's there is no straight forward responsible person for the communal area which has not been maintained since and is concerning to say the least.

Particular concerns are over the means of escape due to open mains boards, breaches in compartmentation, a lack of some fire doors, no emergency lighting (no mains lighting either) and a very interesting extension from one flat into the means of escape that cant have cant have seen any building control officers desk but was constructed years ago.

If anyone has ever encountered this before I would be interested in your approach or any advice.

[Midland Retty]

Hi Olig

Thats an intresting scenario - I've not come across it myself.

When you say Crown Estate I think you mean that the freehold is now owned by HM Government(?)

In theory owing to the fact that they are the freeholders HMG would be the RP, however you would need to look at the individual leasehold agreements to see what responsibilities have been devolved or passed to leaseholders.

Have HMG drawn up new leases at all? Also I wonder if HMG  has or will appoint a managing agent?.

In some circumstances a managing agent could be the RP (depending on the contract between them and the freeholder)

Whilst the freehold of the building is owned by HMG it doesn't to the best of my understanding make the flats Crown Property, as they are not used or occupied by the Crown (The Government)

Furthermore the term "Crown Estate" refers to property directly owned by the reigning Monarch rather than the state.

So in simple terms I would suggest HMG are the RP for the communal areas in all probability  - but you would need to check leaseholder agreements, check to see if managing agents are involved (and what responsibilities they have been given) to look after the communal areas too.

It sounds like it could be a bit messy!

[Mike Buckley]

The other question is from what angle are you approaching this? Are you doing a risk assessment or are you an inspecting officer?

[Tom Sutton]

From Wikipedia,

Escheat is a common law doctrine which transfers the property of a person who dies without heirs to the crown or state. It serves to ensure that property is not left in "limbo" without recognized ownership. It originally applied to a number of situations where a legal interest in land was destroyed by operation of law, so that the ownership of the land reverted to the immediately superior feudal lord.

Modern application

Most common-law jurisdictions have abolished the concept of feudal land tenure of property, and so the concept of escheat has lost something of its meaning. In England and Wales, where escheat still operates as a doctrine of land law, since the abolition of feudal tenure in 1660 there are no legally recognised feudal overlords to take property on an escheat, so that in practice the recipient of an escheated property is the Crown, under its allodial title.

If the above is correct and the property is now owned by the crown and as a result is the RP of the common areas (art 3(b)(ii)) but tell you to retreat in small jerky movements there not a lot you can do as they are immune from prosecution I believe?

[AnthonyB]

They can be 'prosecuted' for want of a better phrase but as Regina cannot convict Regina then all that happens if the case is proven is the issue of a Crown Censure, a bit like slapping yourself on the wrist if you've slipped up.

If there is sufficient bad publicity associated with a case then you might actually see remedials.

A UK Parliament Treasury Committee has previously pulled up the Crown Estate for it's poor management of it's residential portfolio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Estate

http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/

[jayjay]

Do you know who receives the (rack) rent from the tenants ?

The recipient of the rack rent used to be deemed as the responsible person

[wee brian]

Get on to CPIG (crown premises inspection group)

They will/should know what the scoop is and what to do

Try this number - Zero three zero three 444612

[Midland Retty]

Folks the flats in questions are definately NOT crown estate and I completely doubt it is crown property either (see explanation above)

You can call CPIG i doubt you will get an answer any time soon.....

[ST1878]

Came across exactly the same 2 years ago, and after much of the same to-ing and fro-ing passed it on to GPIG, and haven't heard anything since