Tying the knot

[Guest]

How many brigades commit BA teams where personal lines are used to link wearers when NOT utilising BA guidelines?

And for those that do follow the above practice, is there any written procedure or reasoning behind the practice?

This is just a quick straw poll for my own interest as a training officer.

Thanks.

[Guest]

Well folks,

Many thanks for the response to my query, I've learned a lot.

Merry Christmas and a safe and Happy New Year to you and yours.

Cheers

[MessyShaw]

I think maybe if you joined as a member as opposed to aguest you may get more responses. Give it a try.

[fireftrm]

My brigade do not. I think the lack of respondents may be due to the site having been down for so long that many, me included,m haven't even tried to access for ages. When I did I had to re-register so look at how few members there are now in comparison to pre-crash and see that there are few here again - yet.

[Guest]

I myself now work in a training dept (Cheshire) and in Cheshire as in my other 2 previous Brigades (Grampian & Derbyshire) i have always found the practice as stated to be pretty much ad hoc. One thing which is certain is that from Brigade to Brigade and even within Brigades there are a multitude of different ways of doing things in the absence of a formal policy. The reason. Personal preference on the part of individuals whether the instructor or the student.
I for my part would make people aware of the 2 different methods in that connection via personal line gives added security and maintains the integrity of the team (particularly where one or other of the wearers might be relatively inexperienced and prone to going walkabout). However my own personal preference is the maintenance of physical contact (hand on cylinder/shoulder) or personal contact (within sight or sound) certainly this method is much more conducive to rapid unhindered movement on the part of the team and the team members. Although it does carry a degree of risk dependant on the skill and experience of the wearers.
Irrespective of whatever method is taught there will always be the possibility that Firefighters will still at 3 in the morning at a 2 bed domestic (persons reported) make straight for the head of the stairs and most likely split and take a bedroom each.
All that training officers can do is teach the safest recognised methods and leave the crews to pull out the most relevant tool in the box given the job in hand.
The thoughts stated above are a personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect on the policies formal or otherwise of any of the Brigades mentioned.

[pugh]

OK Messy,

I've registered now - happy?

The question still remains - to tie or not to tie?  I have retired from the service and now work in the middle east as a training officer.  I've delivered BA training to our firemen based on the UK standard (TB1/97, etc) and in all my years in the seervice never connected to my BA partner.  I also worked in more than one brigade, neither of which had anything written by way of policy on this matter and many others (searching and room clearance for example).

I've since had consultants who have been paid an awful lot of money criticise my company for not training BA wearers to connect with personal lines at all times.  These people are ex-senior officers now carrying out consultancy work.  I have also heard that connecting with personal lines is common practice in at least one of the midlands brigades - don't ask which because I don't know.

I personally favour remaining uncoupled and unfettered and will continue to train in this manner, with all efforts being devoted to developing competent wearers who are fully aware of the risks and are flexible enough to react to differing situations.  Having said that, I am open to suggestions.  If you know better then say so and why.

[MShaw]

Pugh, (yes I am happier communicating to a name)

I cannot recall any instruction to connect to a fellow ba wearer other than when using guidelines. I agree with you the restrictions on wearers in terms of mobility would be too high to consider such action.

I favour restricting the size of BA crews to two wearers. This allows the entire crew (ie 2 wearers) to remain in physical contact  (by hand) at all times.

Communication between crews of two is much more efficient than bigger crews and you don't get the poor 4th wearer being left in the dark (metaphorically and literally!) as it's often that 3rd or 4th wearer who wander off or get lost.

I also agree with Anderson's post that if BA wearers are fully aware of the risks, they will be able to make a judgement at that time, on the best course of action.

I

[Guest]

I beleive kent are one of the brigades that connect personal lines to each other as standard practice  :?:

[pugh]

 Hello anyone in Kent FB.  

Is this true?  

If so, have you got anything in writing covering this practice?

 :?:

[Guest]

W.Sussex’s policy is that personal lines are connected at all times except :
a) When required to negotiate a hazard
b) When connected by a casualty
c) When in the open within view of ECO or IC.
The policy is in writing.
In case they differ from other brigades’ lines, our personal lines are a 6m length of nylon which automatically retracts back into its housing. There is a knot at 1.25m to prevent extension past this point without deliberately enabling it.

[Guest]

In my role as a trainer i am particularly interested to know what the overriding consideration was which influenced W. Sussex's policy decision.
I recognise that operator safety is paramount, however at times i believe the knock-on effect of a control measure in assisting or conversely hindering effective work practice has to be taken into consideration.
I can think of several occasions based on personal experience where a blanket policy of this type would have adversely affected my own ability and that of my crews to effectively search in a persons reported situation. Clipping on as a matter of course in my view does little to promote the rapid search for casualties in what can be an extremely time critical situation.

[Guest]

Hi all sorry i haven't registered but i'm at work and don't have a lot of time, i used to be retained in Kent and when i took my B.A it was taught to always join two wearers before entering the building for no matter what task, i can't remeber what paper work i have but i can certainly have a look for you if you require, just a side line as well i know i'm in the wrong forum but is anyone aware of any brigades recruiting in the midlands area soon as i am really missing it all.............

[Matt Akers]

Hi all, I am a Retained Kent FF, and yes they do train us to connect to each other when entering in BA what ever the incident. The trainers do tell us to use are initiative and if it obstructing our movements then we can unclip but only if we are connected by physical touch. I am also in the Airport Fire Service, and that is different to Kent, we do not have to be connected. As long as we can see or touch each other it is ok. I can see positive and negatives for both sides, I think you have just got to use your loaf when on the job.