Author Topic: 2 volmes of ADB  (Read 13331 times)

Offline Golden

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Re: 2 volmes of ADB
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2016, 01:12:39 PM »
Kurnal I agree about the difficulty of navigating the standards; I have an online copy of 9999 where I can insert comments and this makes it much easier to put in my own bookmarks and notes on the PDF comments tab that makes it easily navigable but few standards are like this and some don't even have the quick links from the contents pages such as in ADB V2 (which doesn't permit user notes) where the searchable contents are available in the PDF. This type of facility may be something that Wee B could request when the PDF's are published?

From my own perspective I'm used to V1/V2 now and wouldn't like to change too much and blocks of flats are very different animals to dwelling houses.

Offline col10

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Re: 2 volmes of ADB
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 08:58:11 AM »

There's is a conflict between simplicity and flexibility.  At the level of the AD the emphasis needs to be on simplicity, and at the level of the BS the emphasis needs to be on flexibility which inevitably means a less simple document.  Mostly the end users for the AD just want it simple.

Project based ADs, which give guidance on all of the requirements of the regs have been consistently asked for over the years, eg an AD for loft conversions which includes the guidance for fire safety, stairway safety, thermal insulation, electrical safety etc.

Offline Golden

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Re: 2 volmes of ADB
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2016, 09:50:31 AM »
To be perfectly honest why bother any more - many AIs will sign off whatever the developer wants and most projects I get these days are all signed off before I get asked to write a fire strategy!!

Offline col10

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Re: 2 volmes of ADB
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2016, 10:05:42 AM »
James Wharton MP is the Minister for Building Regulations and if the system is not working you should tell him.

Offline kurnal

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Re: 2 volmes of ADB
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 01:30:44 PM »
This is the personal jaded opinion of a dinosaur who has recently retired after spending 42 years in the industry as a fire officer, fire safety manager and 11 years as a consultant.

I am certain the system is totally broken and am sure between us (those who care about standards) we could come up with hundreds of case studies to prove it. First problem though is client confidentiality - as a consultant I see plenty of breaches of the Regs, all reported but rarely actioned but I  have no right to disclose details of work I have carried out (and been ignored) or work I have refused to carry out that has still gone ahead despite being so off the wall as to be dangerous.

So who should complain to Mr Wharton? The client is unlikely to complain as this will only bring hassle on himself, the developer will not complain as they simply bully the fire engineer and AI into accepting whatever they want on threats of losing future work.


Many new buildings are a shambles whether you look at alarms, compartmentation, fire stopping, fire door standards, cavities and voids. The plans are not scrutinised by the enforcement authorities as they used to be to pre-empt problems, strategies are accepted on the nod without often a glimmer of scrutiny or common sense ( basic questions like will it work?), projects are  broken down between a myriad of subcontractors and there is rarely the equivalent of a clerk of works  to keep everyone in line, monitor standards and ensure one contractor does not undo the previous work of another - particularly a problem with fire stopping. So often signed off before The IT guys go in there. And many sites never actually visited by the AI.

The fire service view taking into account budget cuts and re-organisation appears to be one of wait and see - rather than scrutinising building proposals as we used to with the BCO they are now working on a reactive basis and considering prosecution after a fire. My fear is that we will see many more fires in the future especially affecting residential buildings.
 
In my view the system is too far broken for any individual voice to be heard - it would need a co-ordinated approach from the fire protection industry bodies- but their only solution is likely to be Third Party Certification or BIM (not that that will make any difference) The weakness of this is it does not fix the co-ordination issues and damage by contractors undoing others work.   But first the problems need to be recognised and all we have at present is a few old dinosaurs banging their rusty old drums.

Fact is its an attitude problem throughout the whole of the commercial sector in which profits are put before anything else in this world and nobody cares about standards anymore. It's all make make make.

End of rant for now- sorry for being so boring and predictable.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 01:32:19 PM by kurnal »

Offline Mike Buckley

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Re: 2 volmes of ADB
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2016, 04:25:16 PM »
The only glimmer of hope is that there are a number of instances where the occupiers of these new buildings are discovering the faults and are attempting to recover the costs from the builders etc. It is a long shot but hopefully may bear fruit before a coroner passes comment.

If you think you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, do not get concerned, it is probably only the headlight of an oncoming train!
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline colin todd

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Re: 2 volmes of ADB
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2016, 09:01:22 PM »
Every time I see light at the end of the tunnel, Buckers, its some said with a torch bringing me more work.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates