Sprinklers in schools

[Animal]

London Fire Brigade Commissioner Dany Cotton accused the government of "playing with children's lives" because they will not support fitting of sprinklers in new and refurbished schools. Breakfast news she says "I think it was outrageous," she said. "I thought, 'How can we play with children's lives like that?'

How many children have lost their lives or been seriously injured in a school fire post war Britain? Very clearly we have lost schools to arson. Did she mean "playing with children's lives" because of the loss of a school? very dramatic performance with little or no real substance to the matter. IMO CFO playing politics must be very careful of what they say on national news. 

A few months ago a local television reporter asked a mum in a car dropping her children off for school on her reaction to a new school being built without sprinklers to replace the one burnt down by arson her reply was 'oh I don't want my children going to that school its dangerous'

The design of schools has changed so much in recent years to the point that nearly every wall in a new school is a fire resisting wall due to the sound proofing standard that must be present, dramatically decreasing fire spread as nearly every classroom is in its own compartment, name another building of such low fire risk that is built with that benefit? is the cost of fitting and maintaining sprinklers  cost proportionate to the risk?

How many BB100 sprinkler risk assessments have you done that have an outcome that sprinklers are required?

So my question to all is:

Should the revised BB100 keep the sprinkler risk assessment?

[Golden]

I'm fully in agreement with you on the sprinkler issue - currently increased security measures at most schools reduce the risk of arson that was one of the reasons behind attacks on schools and as you point out there has been no loss of life in (my) living memory. New schools are largely non-combustible however I do disagree with the comments on design - some of the school designs with respect to means of escape that I've seen in the past few years have been amateurish and don't conform to BB100 or AD 'B', these have never been challenged by LA building control even when I've raised concerns. Don't get me started on AIs.

[colin todd]

Yet, Silver, in 2016/2017, there were 9 deaths from fire in grassland, woodland, crops and other outdoor locations.  I think it is outrageous that these locations are not sprinklered in England, whereas in Scotland, there is constant sprinkler discharge for most of the year even when there are no fires.
Ms Cotton needs to get out of London more and visit the Surrey heaths, where my good chums in Surrey Fire and Rescue Service are out there doing their bit every summer, complete with their big 42m high reach appliance in case the tops of some high trees catch fire.  As I live on one, she is welcome to a cuppa char when she visits.

[AnthonyB]

Of the schools I've been to that are sprinklered with one exception they were property protection systems and the fire strategy managed life safety requirements without reference to them, primarily reliant on traditional measures of protected stairs and corridors and a fire alarm incorporating AFD.

No existing school I've dealt with has warranted life safety sprinklers so whilst the education continuity & property protection benefits of retrofitting sprinklers has been mentioned they haven't been required in an FRA.

The only educational building with life safety sprinklers was a partly secure unit with known risk of disruption, arson and absconding from the students who had all been previously removed from mainstream education.

I have heard of other new build schools were sprinklers were used as life safety provision to cover some radical departures from BB100/ADB

[colin todd]

Disruption, arson, and radicals. Now that Almost knows of this, he will want sprinklers everywhere in Norn Iron.

[Dinnertime Dave]

I had a colleague lose his job for not getting sprinklers into a school.

The 3 storey school eventually had a sprinkler system fitted, off the town mains. The water board would only guarantee 1.5 bars at the boundary, no money for a pump and at 6:30pm on a summer day there was insufficient pressure to work the system on the top floor. None of our team would agree to it, so the DCFO signed it off.

Another colleague offered to remove a staircase and have a 50m single direction of travel for 150 children on the 1st floor if the developer put sprinklers in. Fortunately building control laughed him out of the room.

I worked in a brigade that wanted sprinklers in all buildings. I tell these stories to highlight what happens when you allow non fire safety trained people to to tell the public that sprinklers are the answer to everything.

Don't get me wrong, they have there place, school is one of them but for business continuity and protecting the educational journey not life safety.

The secret is to encourage the use of the risk tool in BB100 and provide the RP with correct data on fires on site and within 1/2 a mile and base their decision on fact, but if the result is low or medium risk then live with it and walk away. 

Finally, developers were happier to spend less money on providing a robust fence, CCTV and other security measures. These measures prevent burglars and arson.   

[Fire Monkey]

What about schools where there is a caretaker's flat on the top floor? I have seen one in a school that is a ASM - fat chance of Historic England allowing once being installed there!

How about each school having an onsite crewed pump on site just in case - flats seem to have them nowadays.

I think SFRS use UNIMOGS and Landies for those heath fires. They could be stationed on them permanently constantly putting out a fine mist to dampen out any chance of fire...... or fit every tree with a class A extinguisgher?

FM