Care home Sub-Compartment evacuation in 2 ? minutes ? realistic?

[PackMaCan]

The DCLG guide to care homes says that the sub compartment should be evacuated in 2.5 minutes. I?ve just inspected a care home (not a nursing home) for the elderly, some with dementia and/or non-ambulant. It is purpose built with no more than 8 bedrooms to a sub-compartment on two floors and generally a good level of compartmentation including residents bedrooms. There may be up to 40 residents and at night only 2 staff on duty. Staff are trained on PHE and they recon that while some resistants could be moved to the next sub-compartment in in two minutes others would take longer. Is the government guidance realistic? Would longer evacuation time be acceptable if the fire safety measures were sound? Opinions?

[AnthonyB]

Night staffing is always an issue, the CQC are usually happy with two for matters under their remit, but from a fire point of view it's difficult as 1 of those two should be by the panel and calling the fire service with the difficulties then with a lone worker having to investigate.

8 is quite a lot of rooms and most of the care homes I deal with have less - the exception was one where the result was that dividing a compartment further was recommended (there were suitable walls at the split point already so it only required a partition and doorset in the corridor and above the false ceiling).

Depending on the layout of the home and grading of the residents in their PEEPs & person centred FRAs in some cases defend in place for some residents has been the only realistic option where staffing will not be increased.

[colin todd]

Pack Horse, the 2.5 minutes was clearly written by those who should, after writing it, been packed off to a care home for people living with dementia.  It has no basis, as was admitted by those responsible for the guide after it was published but was just an arbitrary figure because they had no idea how long, in practice, it took to evacuate a sub-compartment. CFOA stated publicly at a conference soon after the guidance was published that they were "disappointed" with that recommendation.  Accordingly, NASHICS subsequently, in conjunction with CFOA as was (now known as the Norwegian Forest Cats Club) produced guidance, which has subsequently been revised and still says the same thing, namely that it is often impossible to meet the 2.5 minutes time.  Unfortunately, when it suits them, some FRS trot out the 2.5 minutes.

[AnthonyB]

Link to guide: http://www.nashics.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/CLG-Guide-Additional-Guidance-Document-REV2016-DRAFT-Final-July-16-on-CFOA-site.pdf

I seem to recall there were links to this from Government web sites, but when all the fire stuff moved to gov.uk it is no longer referenced!