Fire rated doors tested to BS 476: Pt 22

[Tom Sutton]

"We manufacture fire rated doors tested to BS 476: Pt 22. We occasionally see companies offering Fire Rated doors for 30 or 60 minutes that are only designed the doors to be resistant for an estimated period of time. The doors have not been tested and in some cases would not come close to being resistant for 30 minutes.

Is there any enforced / legal / insurance requirement for fire rated doors to actually be tested and certified. This would then reduces the incidence of bogus fire doors being installed.

We have seen building contractors buying doors much cheaper that have not been tested or certified. We are told that provided the door supplier tells them the door is fire rated then they can pass the responsibility to that supplier. Ie they choose not to ask for the test certification and focus on the lower cost. Peter Bloomer - PBSC Ltd"

The above question does not apply to me anymore but when it did I am sure I accepted fire doors that did not meet fully the necessary standard and only on a few occassions did I require a certificate. Whats the general policies now or do we go on gutt reaction.

[Martin Burford]

To twsutton.

An interesting enquiry!

FIRE RESISTANCE OF DOORSETS.

A doorset is defined as an assembly, [ including door, frame and guides], for the purpose of closing a permanent opening in separating elements. For the purpose of British Standards, the term doorset includes shutter assemblies, but excludes fire dampers incorporated into ducts.  In England & Wales Approved Document B, [ to the Building Regulations] , gives the specifications of FIRE DOORS.  The doors are identifed under their performance, UNDER TEST, for integrity under a period of minutes.  the minimum FR of doors in terms of integrity is given in TABLE  B1 of Approved Document B.

IDENTIFICATION OF FIRE DOORS.

Fire Doors should be identified by the initials FD followed by the performance in minutes that the door should achieve, when tested for integrity only.  where the door should also resist the passage of smoke at ambient temperatures the suffix " S " should be added to the identification.

PRACTICAL APPLICATION.

From the point of view of an experienced FPO, doors that may meet the requirements are usually assessed by experience, by checking widths, the feel of the door by weight and by its density.  However if there is any doubt then certified documents should be insisted on being provided.

I hope this helps

Conqueror.

[Tom Sutton]

Yes Conqueror  but are you one hundred percent happy without a certificate or other marking schemes?

[Fishy]

I'm intrigued - how do you know that the design has not been fire resistance tested?

[Martin Burford]

tws.....I hope you have read my last paragraph ?
Conqueror

[Tom Sutton]

Fishy you don't unless it is marked or you see a copy of the certificate. Conqueror your last para is the way I used to check fire doors (except on one occassion when I insisted I saw the test cetificate for a fully glazed 1 hr double leaf fire door). However if I was asked is that door a half hour standard all I could say is in my opinion and give my reasons.

[Martin Burford]

tws....glad we agree!
Conqueror

[Tom Sutton]

Approved Document B, Section 6.  Item 6.6 uses the word "should" concerning performance in table B1 of Appendix B. Table B1 is clear in what is required BUT because Item 6.6 says "should" does this means that the regulation is optional? Peter Bloomer - PBSC

[Fishy]

Sorry, TWS, I obviously didn't make myself clear.  To clarify, you stated: "We occasionally see companies offering Fire Rated doors for 30 or 60 minutes that are only designed the doors to be resistant for an estimated period of time. The doors have not been tested and in some cases would not come close to being resistant for 30 minutes".  My question - how do you know that the design has not been tested?  Are you assuming so, or do you know so (and if so, how)?

At the end of the day, if someone is selling something with a claimed performance, and it doesn't have that performance, Trading Standards are the people who can take action.  My understanding is that there would however, have to be proof that the product does not reach the claimed performance; lack of proof of performance may not, in itself, be an offence.

[Tom Sutton]

Fishy  You do not know that the design has not been tested unless the installer produces the certificate or the door is marked with the BWF or Trada marking system. You could adopt the method suggested by Conqueror which is what I used to do but it is not foolproof there again I allowed doors to be made up. :rolleyes:

[wee brian]

The legislation you are looking for is the Construction Products Regulations. These are the regs that implement the Construction Products Directive in england/UK (can't remember which).

In very simple terms a manufacturer must be able to support claims he makes about the performance of a construction producet (like a fire door).

Whilst a test is not specifically required its a rsiky business to claim 30 mins without being able to back it up. These regs are enforced by trading standards officers (usually at county council level). There have been a number of actions taken using these regs including one in relation to fire doors (i think).

If you see somebody making dodgy or even downright false claims then report them to trading standards.

[Auntie LIn]

Do please be very careful in judging doors by weight, thickness etc.   Cork cored doors have been proven as fire resisting.   And be aware that doors 45mm thick can be 60 minute.   You should always look for a certification mark (Certifire, Q-mark, IFCCertification, BRE Certification) or test evidence - not a "certificate" there's no such thing now or an assessment, which will be an assessment from a qualified person who will be using their experience to give an expert judgement on the likely performance.