Author Topic: Guide line maximum length... (Read 37113 times)

Fireguy1230 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 07, 2006, 09:56:26 PM »

Do you not believe that the main faillng point on guideline use within the FRS, is that from the first day of your Basic Training, you are told of the horror stories regarding guideline use?

As a result of this most firefighters avoid them like the plague, all because of the negative perception people have of them.

This negativity means that they are less likely to train with them, and thus less likely to gain confidence and ability in their use. This means that when they do come to use them, it goes wrong (due to avoidance of them in a training environment) and the horror stories start all over again.

UK firefighters are amongst the most proffesional and able in the world. Are you seriously suggesting we are incapable of following a piece of line in to and out of a building?

If Guideline training was more prevalent in the FRS we would be more confident in this piece of equipment.

Andy Cole · « **Reply #31 on:** May 08, 2006, 07:50:36 PM »

Quote from: Fireguy1230

Are you seriously suggesting we are incapable of following a piece of line in to and out of a building?

No, obviously anyone can do this ... my 4 month old daughter could probably do this!
the point is that the guideline is a dangerous out dated piece of equipment that should be removed from all operational vehicles and put into museums!

If we are as you say amongst the worlds finest FF's then maybe we should be the ones to invent a new safer alternative to the antiquated GL!?!

Billy · « **Reply #32 on:** May 08, 2006, 09:06:43 PM »

Andy

At the risk of stating the obvious- If your 4 Month old daughter could follow a guideline (your words, not mine) why would you want to get rid of them and describe them as dangerous outdated pieces of equipment.

There could be 2 reasons for this

1. You think fire crews have less intelligence than 4 month kids?

2. You subconsciously hope your daughter will get confused- take some time to return to the entry point and give you time to catch up on your sleep!!!

I agree with fireguy in that if you don't train with any piece of equipment- how can you expect to be competent in using it ?

Andy Cole · « **Reply #33 on:** May 08, 2006, 09:30:22 PM »

Hello Billy I thought that would rev you up!

Firstly in response to your comments,
i) Whilst I would never wish to cast dispersions on any fellow FF's intelligence I think it is only fair that you know my daughter is quite exceptional and actually far far more intellectually advanced than any other 4 month old any where ever! Fact!

ii) No need for me to catch up on sleep you don't gain that much intelligence in 4 months without getting alot of sleep!

You already know what I think of GL's and I think I know your views so I'm not going to bother going through it all again!

Andy.

Billy · « **Reply #34 on:** May 08, 2006, 09:52:04 PM »

Sorry Andy

I should have realised how intelligent your daughter is, as most kids at 4 months can't walk, never mind follow a Guideline, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Sleep does not gain intelligence- if that was the case I could name at least 2 of my old watch who would be members of MENSA- sadly they weren't!

Although we will disagree on guidelines- surely you can agree with Fireguy that the more we train with guidelines- the more competent we would be in using them?

PS. I am not revved up- I have taken up energy conservation and strive to expend as little as possible!

jokar · « **Reply #35 on:** May 09, 2006, 08:50:25 PM »

Too many years ago for me, my original Station Officer told me that you do not fight fires with bits of string. He also said that roofs with tiles and slates on were there to keep water out and therefore aerial appliances used as water towers were a waste of time. I foolowed that advice and belive that it is still of use today.

Andy Cole · « **Reply #36 on:** May 09, 2006, 09:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Billy

Sorry Andy

I should have realised how intelligent your daughter is, as most kids at 4 months can't walk, never mind follow a Guideline, but I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Walk! she can't even crawl yet!!

Fireguy1230 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 10, 2006, 09:09:35 AM »

Jokar

Fair enough about roofs keeping out water. But if thats gonna be the case, then why do we open external doors of buildings (which have draft proofing and help to keep out wind) and plonk a big PPV fan in front of them?

Tactics are always changing!!

Billy · « **Reply #38 on:** May 15, 2006, 09:58:52 PM »

Jokar

Fighting fires with bits of string is just stupid- why not use water and use the "bits of string" to find your way out to your exit, if required?

fireftrm · « **Reply #39 on:** May 17, 2006, 01:05:55 PM »

Because they might burn and if the fire is out then just let the smoke out and walk out easily.

Billy · « **Reply #40 on:** May 17, 2006, 10:15:31 PM »

Fireftrm

You are right in saying that the guideline might burn the way you do it, but up here in Scotland we are always taught not to pass fire so it wouldn't happen up here, but even if you totally ignored all your procedures (or got caught out)- let the fire get behind you and it totally blocked your exit- I think you would have more pressing things to worry about than the possibility that the guideline might burn!

P.S. hose is made from roughly the same plastic as guidelines with the same melting temperature and firefighters will melt at considerably less than hose will !

Andy Cole · « **Reply #41 on:** May 21, 2006, 12:48:23 PM »

Quote from: Billy

Fireftrm
You are right in saying that the guideline might burn the way you do it, but up here in Scotland we are always taught not to pass fire so it wouldn't happen up here, but even if you totally ignored all your procedures (or got caught out)- let the fire get behind you and it totally blocked your exit- I think you would have more pressing things to worry about than the possibility that the guideline might burn!

Yeah like what bloody chance have I got of putting this fire out with a bit of string..... wish I'd brought a hose reel with me instead!!

Billy · « **Reply #42 on:** May 21, 2006, 02:41:23 PM »

ANDY

I love how simplistic fires are down there and how polite they are as well!

If the fire breaks out behind you it has the decency not to burn your hose that is made of the same material as the guideline!

Could you please send some of these nice fires up to Scotland for me so I can study them, as the ones we have burn everything that is flammable and that is why we are taught never to pass them, because we have bad, nasty fires up here.

That is why the issue of Guidelines or hose being able to burn does not matter as it will only burn if we do not carry out our procedures properly.

jokar · « **Reply #43 on:** May 21, 2006, 05:47:22 PM »

Simple equations really. 2 Firefighters lost their lives in London playing with bits of string rather than use hose lines. By the time the the bits of string were used alongside hose lines, confusion reigned. Even with procedures for use, firefighters would rather go in a building with something tangible to fight a fire if it should break out, in front or behind them. Also, I doubt very much if fires antwhere in the world are different, they will still kill or injure all types of people from the trained to the non trained. By the way, how difficult is it to tie off that guideline and keep it taunt so that those entering behind have something to follow. Do all buildings have nice height tie off points at the right place, not by the ties, and what happens when a short tie comes undone. (Just a point, I haven't looked at a guideline for too many years so I might have the wrong info here).

Andy Cole · « **Reply #44 on:** May 21, 2006, 07:01:42 PM »

Thats a good example reallly of why if they are still in use the training should be kept upto a high standard on them!

Obviously I wouldn't intentionally pass a fire but as you said yourself Billy it is possible to get caught out!, all I am saying is that I would stand a much better chance of being able to get out if I had a HR withh me than if I had a GL!

I am not sure of the facts but I find it a little difficult to believe that a HR will burn at the same temperature as a GL!?!

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Author Topic: Guide line maximum length... (Read 37113 times)