Landlords responsibilities

[GB]

I have a landlord who has a 3 storey and basement terraced office building with a single escape stair. He has seperate tenants on each floor who are responsible for conducting their own risk assessment as each have over 5 employees. The landlord has conducted a fire risk assessment of the communal area as is required. He has asked if he is required to provide and maintain fire extinguishers on each level within the communal area or if that is the responsibility of each employer.

In the eventuality that it is his responsibility, who & how does he train those the may use this piece of equipment?. Who pays for that training?

My initial reaction is to say that it should be each tenants responsibility rather than the landlord. I am however looking for guidance / case law / thoughts.

[Bill J]

I often come across this, one concern is that often Landlord staff may be on site, in the common areas when Tenants are not present, (or when tenanted areas are not let) therefore there is no access to their areas, or their extinguishers.

I generally recommend that the Landlord provides extinguishers in the common areas, but that tenants provide training for staff AND extinguishers if required particular to their needs, local to the risk.

Also remember Maintenance, if you are relying on tenants, are you relying on them providing maintenance of the extinguishers? Again areas which are unlet may have extinguishers which have not been serviced for quite some time.

[Big A]

GB - What does he do now?

[jokar]

It is the tenant's responsibility to provide, where necessary ffe.  The landlord has undertaken his/her responsibility and it would not be necessary to provide ffe as the means of escape should be safe from fire.  FFE provided in the mofe may reduce the staircase width and therefore the RA may be no longer valid.  Much more practical for ffe to be in each demise anyway.

[GB]

A new property manager has taken over the property from within the same management company. He is currently undertaking a review of his properties as there has been no risk assessment done for either communal escape or by his tenants. He is looking to take care of his responsibilites without taking undue liabilities on board by the provision of items such as extinguishers that he may not be required to provide within the communal escape.

I take the point about his own staff being within the building and may require use of an extinguisher, but if he provides an extinguisher in the common escape, one of the tenants uses it and get's it wrong, will he be held liable for not providing adequate training / or not making it secure enough in order that no unauthorised person can use the piece of equipment?

[GB]

Jokar - apologies you responded as I was trying to construct a coherent post - thanks.

I tend to agree as you can see from the flavour of my response. I am interested however in any case study / law / stories where this point has been fleshed out.

[AnthonyB]

case law - you'll be lucky! Proecution is rare enough as it is and usually for more critical things than a few extinguishers in a stair.

Here's how I would look at it-
1. Landlords area PFE is normally risk specfic - plant rooms, car parks, reception (if guard/buliding managers desk with papers, PC, etc)
2. Escape stairs, especially those for fire only, are usually so sparsely decorated as to have no realistic likelihood of anything to use PFE on
3. Some stairway, also used for accomodation (i.e. everyday acess) may be more liberally equiped with ignition & combustible risks (& usually have other common risk areas directly off such as cleaners store cupboards, risers, toilets, etc) and although would not automatically have PFE would be more carefully assessed.
4. Multiple Persons in control or or occupying the same premises shouldn't be doing FRAs in isolation an must coperate and coordinate. As a result with tenants we will always visit them in a landlord FRA to cordinate the FRA, enforce a minimum under the lease and educate (with the new DCLG RRO leaflet as they kindly sent us a free crate of them) them. So they will have suitable PFE that is serviced in their areas (if they want any peace that is)
5. Vacant floors not under lease fall under the landlord and so here we have them either service it or remove it. If vacant under lease the leaseolder is given the same options.

No law or stories to flesh out the above, just experience of hundreds of properties in different brigade areas & not had a problem back yet.

I've seen some daft use of PFE taking the BS too literally e.g. several new builds on their plain concrete/plaster alternative fire escape stair have a fire point of water & CO2 next to the final exit - to be used on what?