Residential Care Premises - Delayed Evacuation

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Delayed Evacuation - Page 71

'Any resident who is initially left in a bedroom should be accompanied by a carer.'

The Local Authority will not sanction this.  Nor will the Fire Authority, regardless of protective measures in place.

We have a number of residents who if moved, the anxiety will kill them - bed bound for upto 3 years.

It's common to find residential homes are nursing and a substantial number of nursing are EMI, though not registered as such, and therefore below appropriate staffing levels.

It's obvious that a full evac could not be performed without external assistance and an increase in staffing levels to a level to perform a satisfactory evac ( 2 1/2 min for the compartment/sub compartment) is pie in the sky.

Did anybody run an exercise before writing this?

Any views on this will be graciously listened to.

[kurnal]

Its completely impractical isnt it. But now its written down into the guidance it sticks out like a sore thumb.
We have had 40 bed units for years with two staff on duty. In the event of a fire one of the staff  spends the first  4 minutes on the phone making a 999 call whilst the other - if quick thinking and taking no personal risk zips round the building ensuring all doors in protected areas ( sorry I forgot they arn't allowed anymore) and corridors are closed.
Then they identify those at risk and start the first stage of evacuation. Meanwhile the other 30 are  "initially left in a bedroom " whilst others at higher risk are moved. Thats how its always been.

But I cant imagine that thew guidance was intended to be read quite in this way. I wonder if it meant that if someone has to be left in their room within the affected zone they should be accompanied? That would make a bit more sense but wouldn't do much for the safety of the carer. It would be similar though to the need to accompany persons using refuges and not leaving them to fend for themselves.

And I dont want to hijack your post but what are we to do about all those homes with protected areas that seem no longer to be part of an acceptable solution? Our canny friends north of the border seem to have it sorted  much better.

[wee brian]

Protected areas are still in the guide, arent they?

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The bedroom according to the guide needs to be a protected room - 60 min standard, plus member of staff in attendance...

Does this include the glazing?  You would think so if on an upper floor.

It's quite clear that a carer should be in the room during the initial stages of a fire - a delayed evacuation is envisaged.

My concern is the resident who will die if moved, ok they'll die if they stay due to the fire, either way they die, on paper.  But my H&S folks are telling me that a member of staff should not have to stay in the room with the resident, and will not write into the fire procedure for this type of resident.

P.S. sprinklers have been turned down due to cost, I'd have thought as a trade off on staffing levels they'd have saved a fortune.

USA are providing government loans for the fitting of sprinklers in care homes throughout the US of A!

[jokar]

Delayed evacuation is not new, better called defend in place.  Leave those old, bedridden where they are behind a 60 min structure and deal with those that require moving.  Staff levels have always been poor but more to the point would you risk yourself for someone else at minimum wage.  More to the point though is the adequacy or not of the detection and warning system.  In a defend in place strategy you would not want the nosey ones to be alerted so the alrm could.should be staff alert only.  PHE is still there for those who want to use it of course but more to the point where is single stage evacuation used in a care home?

[kurnal]

wee brian
sorry careless use of words by me. I was thinking of the old draft green guide protected areas - ie no self closers on the doors in bedroom corridors wihin the "protected area".
As you know very many homes are like this - and till now ( and Rosepark) have been satisfactory.
The new guide advises that all bedrooms to have closers and in these days of swing frees there should be nothing more than a culture shock (and financial shock) for the poor owner.

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In effect the rooms already have 60 min protection by default - all doors 30min, therefore if closed, with dual strips, speedy detection - L1 and investigation - addressable, staff well drilled, no problemo...

Progressive evac policy will be fine as always on paper till help arrives, but the guide is clear total evac procedure without any external help, i.e fire service

Found a care home last week - no afd in bedrooms and sliding doors to rooms, how can that be in 2006 after Rosepark?

[TallyHo]

Joker

You state that in a defend in place strategy the alarm could, should be staff alert only.  I am led to believe that this is happening more and more.

I was wondering if the disabling of the audible alarm is recognised by FA’s as being an acceptable practice.

[wee brian]

I hope so - as the severall thousand buildings with staff alarms are in trouble

[TallyHo]

Sorry Brian

What I meant to say was that it is happening more and more in other premises that are not staffed care homes.

[wee brian]

@ive only come across them in entertainment premises and healthcare - who else is using them?

[jokar]

A dangerous policy in places where staff do not have a specific role in evacuation and the evacuation area is large.  However, on a risk assessed basis anything is possible given the right circumstances and training.

[TallyHo]

I've seen it in res homes for the elderly (non care homes) where a warden has a pager, the warden lives on the premises but is not permanently on call.  When the warden leaves the premises control is handed over to an alarm receiving centre who can speak to the occupant via an intercom.  There was AFD in each flat but not in the corridors or communial meeting areas.  The manual call point alarm system had also been isolated.

I am also lead to believe that some supermarkets have started installing delayed alarm systems and issuing pagers to some of the staff who would investigate an alarm before the actuation of an audible alarm takes place.

[jokar]

Time delay units on Fire Alarms are ok providing the management system in place is sound and is tested.  The investigation of the incident is allowed for in this and the member of staff is now nominally given a title as a fire alarm verifier.  Keeps down the false alarms of course.