Author Topic: Green boxes  (Read 8238 times)

Offline val

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Green boxes
« on: January 18, 2006, 07:07:49 PM »
Sorry to raise an old chesnut.  Green boxes alongside electro-magnetically locked fire exits.

Why them and not just a normal switch/button? What is the actual bnefit of them being double pole? Breaking live and neutral would surely only be necessary if the wiring had been wrongly installed? Would anormal switch allow re-locking?

I know the argument about being able to use them when the warning system hasn't sounded and make the assumption that the exit is needed and members of the public are in the premises.

Thanks for any explanations, (in plain English), (though Scottish would do), and any links to formal standards etc.

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2006, 11:27:23 PM »
1. By using a break glass the action is irreversible. A switch would be reversible, unless latching.
2. The wiring could be wrongly installed. We dealt with a case of this only a year ago, and even the double pole BGU would not release the doors when the FA operated.
3. Could be an earth fault on one leg.

The matter will be the subject of BS 7273-4, which we are currently contracted by BSI to write for them. Your department chums are aware of this Valery.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline val

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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 06:22:43 AM »
Thanks Colin

Offline Bill J

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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 11:29:45 AM »
Just to add to Colins point.

Generally the push to operate switch adjacent to each door is used every time that someone goes through the door, if its a busy door that can be hundreds of times a day,after a while they do become erratic and fail.

Having the Green BGU adjacent allows persons an alternative for emergencies.

Bill

Offline Paul

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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 09:31:52 PM »
When will this BS be avaialble Colin?

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2006, 01:02:34 PM »
Probably around early 2007.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Paul

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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2006, 03:45:55 PM »
Thanks Colin, this will be welcomed by all I should think!!

Offline Wiz

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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2006, 09:25:51 PM »
Quote from: Bill-J
Just to add to Colins point.

Generally the push to operate switch adjacent to each door is used every time that someone goes through the door, if its a busy door that can be hundreds of times a day,after a while they do become erratic and fail.

Having the Green BGU adjacent allows persons an alternative for emergencies.

Bill
Whilst the liklihood of failure of a request to exit (RTE) switch due high use is obviously a potential problem, there is also another more important reason why a green emergency door release unit may be an absolute necessity.

If a push-to-break RTE switch is wired in the electrical feed to the door locking mechanism it only releases whilst the button is pressed, and locks again immediately it is released.

But not all RTE switches are wired as a push-to-break switch in the electrical feed to the fail-safe door locking mechanism, they are quite often wired as a push-to-make switch across special terminals provided for the purpose on the keypad, swipe or proximity reader controller that may be associated with the door.

In  this latter scenario, operation of the RTE switch will cause the locking mechanism to release for a pre-set time, even after the RTE switch is released, and therefore allow easy access through a door which may be some way from the RTE switch, or where the door users have their hands full. However, with this version of connection, if the wiring between the RTE switch became disconnected or the controller circuitry failed, then the lock would not fail-safe released.

Therefore a green emergency door release unit wired as a normally-closed switch in the feed to the door locking device is essential, in case the push-to-make RTE switch or controller circuitry failed.

Offline PhilB

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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2006, 07:43:54 PM »
Blimey..Colin's back. Where have you been old boy?!!!!

Offline Wiz

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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2006, 07:58:12 PM »
Quote from: PhilB
Blimey..Colin's back. Where have you been old boy?!!!!
Sorry Phil, it really is only me, little Wiz. It is possible that even the great CT doesn't know about the use of push-to-make RTE buttons. But I wish I had  a little of his money, instead of this little bit of knowledge!!!