Author Topic: Critical paths  (Read 9311 times)

Offline Allen Higginson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
Critical paths
« on: May 30, 2006, 06:08:53 PM »
Does the same rules apply to fixed extinguishing systems and 5839 ones in relation to critical paths and external circuits? I don't have access to the BS in relation to gaseous installations and I need to make sure I'm in the right before I start to stir something up.
Cheers in advance!

Offline David Rooney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
    • http://ctafire.co.uk
Critical paths
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2006, 06:55:21 PM »
In a word (or three) I would say yes, without knowing what circuits specifically you are refering to.

In the simplest form the coincidence detection system is just a "specialised" FD&A system.

A couple of paragraphs from 5839-1 to mull over....

(Under Scope)
The term fire detection and alarm systems, in the context of this part of BS 5839, includes systems that
range from those comprising only one or two manual call points and sounders to complex networked
systems that incorporate a large number of automatic fire detectors, manual call points and sounders,
connected to numerous inter-communicating control and indicating panels.

The term also includes systems that are capable of providing signals to initiate the operation of other fire
protection systems and equipment (such as fire extinguishing systems, smoke control systems or automatic
door release equipment) or safety measures (such as shut down of air handling systems, closing of oil or gas
valves, or grounding of lifts). It does not apply to the other systems and equipment themselves, or the
ancillary circuits to interface with them. Recommendations for the planning, installation and servicing of
facilities for operation of certain fire protection systems by the systems addressed within this part
of BS 5839 are given in BS 7273.


9.2 Recommendations
The following recommendations are applicable in the case of systems intended to actuate other fire
protection systems or safety facilities (e.g. by triggering an automatic fire extinguishing system, closing fire
resisting doors, shutting down an air handling system or grounding lifts).

a) The system should comply with the recommendations of any applicable part of BS 7273.

b) If no part of BS 7273 is applicable, any special requirements for system design should be identified in
the purchase specification or design proposals.

6266 Appendix B - for a risk cat. D or E system, recommends a "dedicated smoke detection system interfaced with the main building system - see 5839-1 and Annexe A.
CTA Fire - BAFE SP203 - F Gas Accredited - Wireless Fire Alarm System Specialists - Established 1985 - www.ctafire.co.uk
Natural Born Cynic

Offline Allen Higginson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
Critical paths
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 12:17:33 AM »
YOI,YOI,YOI - This I know already!!!I need to know if signals from the pressure switch,the release circuit and auxillary signalling need to be in fire rated cable. I would do it as standard but I need to know if,like 5839 (2002), all need to be done to meet the standards.

Offline Thebeardedyorkshireman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
Critical paths
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2006, 05:12:21 PM »
Hi
I searched our technical library for the latest copy of BS7273 pt 1 and found we are out of date whoops! I have a copy on its way to me as I write. In the 1990 standard it stated that wiring for the whole system ( electrical actuation of gaseous extinguishing) must have the same fire resistance as sounders to the old BS 5839 pt1 1988. On the pretext that these things rarely diminish I think you initial thoughts were in fact correct. I may be wrong ( as the wife informs me daily) but I will check when I have the text.
Sorry for the delay but we know we read it on publication. Somebody must have nicked it!
Dave

Graeme

  • Guest
Critical paths
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2006, 05:14:27 PM »
check your e-mail

all you need sent.

g

Offline Thebeardedyorkshireman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
Critical paths
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 12:30:26 PM »
Early this morning a former collegue phoned and confirmed that the wording from 1990 to 2000 editions has in principle remained the same with regard to wiring. Therefore you could proceed with your initial proposals. I believe that you have this from Graeme.
If not, send me an E mail.
Dave

Offline Allen Higginson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
Critical paths
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 04:38:08 PM »
Cheers guys!!

Graeme

  • Guest
Critical paths
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 09:55:16 PM »
you must be due me a fortune in beer now buzz.

still you should be able to afford it now that your a suit.

Offline Allen Higginson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
Critical paths
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 11:56:34 PM »
Quote from: Graeme Millar
you must be due me a fortune in beer now buzz.

still you should be able to afford it now that your a suit.
It disnae mention cables ya numptie!!

Graeme

  • Guest
Critical paths
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2006, 07:01:40 AM »
that's gratitude for you....

i'll send the rest of what i have tonight then.

i'll shoosed you,ya tweedy auld crow.  co co.

Offline Allen Higginson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
Critical paths
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2006, 03:13:41 PM »
Anymore guff and I'll get Mr.Paranoia on here from TSI forum (BG!!).

Graeme

  • Guest
Critical paths
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 10:09:17 PM »
mailed you other stuff too that might be of interest?

that's all i have on fixed systems though.

Offline LATITUDE

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Critical paths
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2006, 01:49:04 AM »
Hi all

Was just reading this topic and was wondering if the provision of pressure switches is actually a requirement of confirmation of release in BS 7273 or is it a belt and braces type thing??

Pat