blue light runs...urgent

[stevfire2]

hi,
   we have been asked to consider not to run on blues to respond to off airfield crashes. apparently if we make this a standard operational practice and cast it in stone in the aerodrome manual, we will halve our INSURANCE PREMIUM!  wouldnt any crew that then "breaks"this rule be liable?
if we dont use blues, we may as well be going out bloody  shopping as far as im concerned.we know we arent above the law, and always drive accordingly,(only one EFAD qualified driver sometimes available) but i feel this implies we may be reckless and aggresive on blues. of course the  usual comments about how rarely this happens anyway so it wouldnt matter!
can anyone point me in the direction of anywhere  that says we MUST (not may) use blues. no mention of using our sirens yet though. thanks
                                          steve

[kurnal]

You wont find anything that says you must drive on the blues- emergency vehicles have an exemption from certain sections of the road traffic act under certain circmstances- cant remember the exact wording. My reason for posting is that I find your position very interesting - as a former fire officer my car premium was not affected one jot by my having blues and twos- it was just class 1 business use.
I would have expected insurance premiums to be governed by claims history rather than by any percieved risk.
My advice is to shop around- you will have a great deal of clout in the insurance market place and if you have not got an adverse claims history I would be asking your insurers to review their position or you will take your business elsewhere. Its worked with a number of my large clients. Oh yusss!!!!

[devon4ever]

Hi Steve,

haven't got a cast in stone definitive answer but Ive worked on several airfields & your insurers need to realise the nature of Air Crash Rescue, bimbling down the civvy road to buy buns & tea is one thing and the driver is unlikely to make sudden manouvres, tipped out on a shout through a crash gate to look for a crashed aircraft is another.....the other road users NEED to be aware that your vehicle is travelling to an emergency, with blues (& possibly 2's) deployed, other drivers will then give you the necessary latitude.......................................try Churchill "Oh YYYYYES!"

[Midland Retty]

hi,
   we have been asked to consider not to run on blues to respond to off airfield crashes. apparently if we make this a standard operational practice and cast it in stone in the aerodrome manual, we will halve our INSURANCE PREMIUM!  wouldnt any crew that then "breaks"this rule be liable?
if we dont use blues, we may as well be going out bloody  shopping as far as im concerned.we know we arent above the law, and always drive accordingly,(only one EFAD qualified driver sometimes available) but i feel this implies we may be reckless and aggresive on blues. of course the  usual comments about how rarely this happens anyway so it wouldnt matter!
can anyone point me in the direction of anywhere  that says we MUST (not may) use blues. no mention of using our sirens yet though. thanks
                                          steve

I take it that it is your insurers asking you to consider not to use blues and two's?

They need to understand your role as a rescue and firefighting service a bit more - I'd get the company's rep down to your airport and discuss the matter, or blow them out and look at other companies.

At the end of the day you need to respond to all aircraft incidents which could entail going  off site for an aircraft thats overshot the runway for instance.

It is ludicrous to suggest that you can't or shouldnt use blue lights / sirens.

I would write it up in your own policy statement that you intend to use blues and twos when responding to incidents off site, it will cover you for a whole host of different things.

i cant see any firefighter being prosecuted / hauled over the coals for using blues and twos so long as they are EFAD (or equivalent trained)

At the end of day life saving has to come before anything else and if blues and twos help you do that then i dodnt think anyone could successfully reprimand you for it.

[stevfire2]

thanks for the replies so far guys, in the past its been bad enough trying to get through on blues, to think im expected to amble about and patiently queue......!
               steve

[DaveM]

Gents, i think you will all find that although we are classed as an Airport Emergency Service the RFFS are NOT allowed to respond to any external Aircraft incident as the local authority F&RS does.

When responding we must abide by the Highway Code including not breaking the speed limits and we are not allowed to pass a traffic light at Red.

the Blue's and Two's are there as a warning to other road users only (Size of Vehicle) and not as a right of way.

The speed limits may be exceeded and Red light passed if you are being escorted to the incident by an authorised Police Officer/s in their authorised Vehicle/s.

Your Operational Procedures should always reflect this.

[Midland Retty]

What I would suggest is that you contact the Police Superintendant resposnible for your local police traffic divison.

They are normally the officers who authorise people like voluntary Search and Rescue Teams and Local St Johns Ambulance crews to use blue lights in an emergency etc.

Certainly wouldn't hurt asking the question, but I still stick to my original post and that ios that where there is a risk to life and limb as it were i doubt any authorty would prosecute you for attending to aircraft incident near your airport - I always thougt Airport RFFS had a statutory duty to do so.

[fireftrm]

As DaveM says RFFS are not legally allowed to use blue lights/sirens or any exemptions under the Road Safety Act 2006 that FRAs can use. |If an RFFS wishes to use these then they need to be approved by the FRA - NOT the Police, they need to become approved users of the local FRA. Previoulsy such exemptions were for Fire Service purposes, the RS Act changed this to FRA. The Police do not need to approve any blue light emergency response driving as these are covered by the RS Act as use by Police, Ambulance or FRA purposes. Airport RFFS have no STATUTORY duty to attend anything, except that airports require them. The ATC need to approve their use off airfield as the airport will almost certainly be closed as a result of their leaving. On, or off, airfield the stautory powers for firefighting and rescue lie with a LAFRS attendance as that is where the law sets the power - though no LAFRS manager would be stupid enough not to accept the expertise of the RFFS one!

[AnthonyB]

The Road Safety Act only removed the right to exceed the speed limit from non LA Brigades & they may ony continue to do so if trained suitably. The nature of what is approved and sufficient has not been defined as it requires a subsidiary Order to be issued by the Secretary of State & the speed limit exemption part of the Act is not currently enacted due to this.

The provisions in previous Road Traffic Acts and Vehicle Lighting Regulations regarding other exemptions and the fitting of blue lights still stand, with the definition of Fire Brigade Purposes.

However the RS Act is the thin end of the wedge and signals a start in a tightning of emergency driving - the biggest impending challenge for the private fire & ambulance sector will be the training issue