Evacuation procedures for people who need to use wheelchairs

[kurnal]

On these forums we so often discuss various options for the safe evacuation of people who enter a building in a wheelchair but for whom in an emergency the only options are to wait in a refuge, to be carried downstairs in their own chair  or to transfer to an evacuation chair and be assisted downstairs by others. I would be very interested to hear the views of someone who does use a wheelchair and how you would feel about these options?

[jokar]

My father in law was a wheelchair user and never really entered a building and went to upper floors.  However, he hated being carried in and out of the chair and never quiet got over the fact that he had a very inquiring mind but because of his body was treated as an idiot.  People spoke to me in prefernec to him when I was pushing the chair and he used to get very angry with this.  For that reason alone you cannot have a set plan for users.  they need to be, and want to be, treated as the individuals that they are.  It is so very easy for those of us who are able bodied to set evacuation plans but for a variety of reasons individuals would not want to be lifted out of their chairs.  (Pain from muscle wastage, skin problems and the fact that it is their chair and they have a sense of belonging)  Women will not leave bags, imagine leaving your car.  It is essential that PEEPS happen.  However, the public building scenario is a real issue and the only real solution is to have evac lifts, even if that means upgrading the existing.

[Ken Taylor]

Totally agree, Jokar.  You can even encounter opposition or disbelief from architects and building control / approved inspectors when asking for evacuation lifts on behalf of a client - and from clients who don't want the added cost. We should have it established within the ADs that all new industrial, commercial, educational, entertainment, public, etc buildings should have evacuation lifts whenever there is a need for lifts. Useful as they can be, I feel that putting an evacuation chair at the top of the stairway has become the 'easy cheaper option'.  

I have spoken to a few wheelchair-users in this context and some say that they would prefer to bump themselves down the stairs on their bottoms rather than be lifted by others either in their chair or into an evacuation chair. Some others have had some degree of use of their legs and have strongly wished to get themselves down the stairs at their own very slow speed. I have also found it rather difficult to find volunteers to carry out this procedure - particularly persons who can be relied upon to be present when needed.

[timfsa]

Ken your comment about evac chairs being seen as the cheaper option is quite correct. My background in safety management for the retail sector has shown me this. They moan about the cost of the chair initially, but when shown the option of a evac lift they buy the chair without question.
The biggest problem is the ongoing situation of manual handling, training, staff availability etc. Getting the management to realise this and manage it effectively is very difficult and is always going to be the shortcoming of evac chairs, along with the issue of removing persons from their own chairs of course.
How would you defend in court an injury to a person during a 'forced' rescue from their own chair into an evac chair for instance?
I know there is always the argument of 'saving their life' but in many cases they may well be able to prove that the refuge was never in danger and the fire was extinguished before they were at serious risk. A point that I am sure many legal bods would be happy to debate at length.

[Donna]

I am a wheelchair user and I am currently taking a particular District Council and service provider who are "Her Majestys Court Service",  (detailed in other topics in this forum)  to court for breaking the Disabled Discrimination act, but regarding the above points, and more importantly, whilst "suffering the discrimination bit" I noticed quite a lot of HSE and FSO issues, and reported them to the relevant authorities, the outcome was that lighting had to be brought up to British Standard, Fire Exit signs were to be erected and displayed, and the staff had to keep a risk assessment, and have a nominated responsible person, oh and have 5 or more employees! whilst none of these pose an urgent threat to members of the public,(cough cough) I was really shocked to realise that there is all these rules and regulations in place, but only effective if persons actually adhere to them.
But, over the course of the last few months I have racked my brains, (as due to go into concilliation soon to discuss how I think they can put right the obvious access problems they have,
a) The building having 4 external masonary steps and 7 internal carpeted risers, to the foyer,
b) No other safe fire exits due to the corridor to the only other exit that has 2 internal locked doors, a wheelchair stannah lift and an external locked door,
 so have asked as many questions as I can to the use of evacuation chairs etc, and have received sensible replies, some for them and some against, but I have not actually expressed my person views as a wheelchair user myself, but here goes!
 
1. I PERSONALLY wont go in a building that I could see a problem arising in an emergency, as I know "I" would be a problem for any hero, and that would prick my conscience, so multi floors are a definate NO NO! and I hope that anyone from the Fire/Rescue dept would deep down hope all wheelchaired persons would adopt that view! (but these are only my personal views)

2, Manhandle me from my 100kg £2,500 powerchair...Dont even go there!

3, Put me on an evacuation chair and bump me down the stairs...NO,  (apart from the obvious sight of the wheelchair, no-one would know there was anything wrong with me, but neurological disorders are sometimes invisible, and my condition can vary from minute to minute, and a simple jar-up at any given time can cause a blackout)

No proffessional or volunteer should ever attempt to move a disabled person (unless the disabled person knows themselves that they can cope with this)
All Rescue authorities should be "helping", (putting pressure on, more like) all the other authorities like Councils etc, NOT to have ANY public service held in any building that a disabled person cannot get out of on their own independently! its just common sense, sadly the DDA is not a threat to any service provider, there is so much red tape, that the service providers are actually laughing at the law intended to protect us, this has been apparent in my own personal case (even though I know the law works sometimes) In the 3 months that my case has been going, we have not even had a letter of acknowedgement,
I really feel for all you guys who put your lives at risk, but I think that until some law is put in place, Disabled persons should be more responsible when accessing "buildings with problems"  dont get me wrong, I fight all the time for DDA rights etc, but when it comes to basic common sense regarding "if there was an emergency, scenario" Disabled persons, put the rescue guys first...DONT GO IN THE BUILDING IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Well thats my OWN views as a wheelchair user, I hope it has answered some of your questions,
Dont hesitate to ask me anything, you will always get a honest genuine answer,
Have a nice Christmas

Ps, The building I entered did not seem to pose a threat until I was actually locked inside!

[Ken Taylor]

Thanks, for your response, Donna. You will know that the legal requirement is to not unreasonably discriminate and that what may be considered reasonable for one duty-holder may not be for another (considering financial aspects, etc) and that what is considered reasonable at one time may no longer be so with the course of time. In the case to which you refer, does the local authority have someone like an accessibility officer who could give an informed view with regard to the particular building?

Whilst I appreciate your view with regard to access to multi-floor buildings, we need to consider that the DDA was intended to enable more access by persons with disabilities. It is regrettable that similar legal constraint was not simultaneously required for safe egress in the event of fire and other emergencies. Non-ambulant persons have been prevented for too long from accessing premises and limited in job opportunities by those in control of buildings and those who design them and, despite the DDA, this is still happening in many cases - particularly in building design by using the evacuation chair principle in order to avoid the cost of an evacuation lift.

We also need to consider employees in workplaces, pupils in schools, etc who become disabled at some point. On a number of occasions I have been asked to intervene in circumstances of this nature with questions such as 'Can this person continue to work in their office? Can we still have this pupil in our school? etc. Fortunately, in many cases it has been possible to produce personal evacuation plans that enable them to remain - particularly making use of the availability of alternative exit routes and the time 'won' by effective fire-doors. However, this is not good enough and time is overdue for safe exit as well as access

[Donna]

Hi Ken, forgive me for not going on too much about "that particular building" I fully understand what you are on about, its a bit of a difficult one, the DDA rep has wrote to all parties concerned to arrange concilliation but they have been SO ignorant that we have not had a reply or acknowedgement, (even from the accessibility officer) so basically "the" and any discimination laws are not forceful enough for anyone to "jump to attention" regarding the disabled bit,
On the other hand as soon as it was brought to attention  the various safety "flaws" that would or could affect any member of the public, then those aspects were cleared up quick sticks.
I have not heard of "evacuation lifts" I always thought the rule of thumb was NOT to use lifts full stop when it came to fires etc? are these different by design?

As a "now "disabled person"  (long term problem, came on ten fold about 8 years ago, had to retire from driving alltogether about 4 years now)
I still mentally want to do absolutely everything that I used to, but am a down to earth person who often (has tears behind a smiling face) tries to just get on with it, but I am realistic! Do I expect my local BHS shop to leave wheelchair space in between aisles so I can shop with dignity and independence?...Yes, I blooming well do, why? because its real easy to move some free standing display gondolas,  Have they complied with the DDA since Oct 2004 or 1995? ..No, ..Why? because they prefer to put the middle finger up to us, and have more room for stock...The DDA process is so long winded, so exhasberating to the disabled person actually going through the complaints system the approx 80% give up, before halfway through, and bearing in mind the average disabled person has to cope with more emotional problems such as deep depression that they would naturally find the process more draining that the average peeps, talk about penalise the penalized!  and whats more all the big stores take advantage of this fact.
But would I go up several floors, in fighting for my human rights to do everything that the able bodied do, knowing that in an emergency I would cause somebody untold problems in getting me out? NO NO I just wouldnt be so selfish!
As regards to Kurnals' first question to the views of a wheelchair user, No I would not want to leave my chair, and I would prefer if service providers actually gave a thought to the "rescuers" and DID NOT expect disabled persons to take it on their consciences to be a burden to any "rescuer" then life would be far more simple, AND SAFER.

[kurnal]

Hi Donna and thanks for your replies. I promised you some info on the design of evacuation lifts some time ago and will endeavour to email you the detail over the next few days.

The majority of public buildings and shops get even the basics of fire safety so wrong in all areas that it is no surprise that they dont have a clue when it comes to more difficult considerations. And in their efforts to pile it high and sell loads of it make it frustrating for me to pass through the store never mind  parents with pushchairs and people with wheelchairs. Even the supermarkets clog up their aisles at this time of year impeding free movement just when they have more customers than at any other time.  

Then theres those shops where they  put the tills at the back of the store ( So people are exposed to seeing all the goods again and more impulse buys as they leave the shop after they have paid.)

Ken has summarised the legal position very nicely, and is right that the DDA did nothing whatsoever to ensure that the same people given access to the building could get out safely in an emergency. Things have moved forward since Oct 1st though because the new fire safety order is absolutely clear that safe provision has to be made for all persons who could be affected by a fire.  I have seen an increase in the number of responsible persons asking for advice, training and procedures to be drawn up. And for years I have been training staff in the use of evac chairs and recommending their use, and even showing a team of 3 and 4 rescuers how to carry a wheelchair down a flight of stairs.

And all the time I do this I am aware that it papers over the cracks- there are always some people too ill to be manhandled out of their chairs and bumped down in the evac chair, and it is difficult to justify the risks if they are already in a well constructed refuge. But again- if there really is a serious fire then at some stage they will have to be moved.  

I have never met anyone else before who considers the rescuers though Donna. Most will be more focussed on their rights of access. I cant see things improving without legal changes being made- starting with the building regulations. Developers and architects, and building control officers will not enforce a higher standard than they can get away with. The building regs allows this flawed system of refuges- and make reference to BS5588 part 8 but the control officrs never think it through even to the extent of the provision of communications in the refuge. So very often we end up with a substandard provision and buildings are signed off as complete with a phrase such as "procedure for the use of refuges to be determined by fire risk assessment"- in other words this is what you have got- make up some weasel words to satisfy the authorities.

And all this was the reason for my question. In giving more training courses for staff I was interested in finding out whether the people who are on the receiving end of the evac chair procedures and training have any confidence in such a system.

My latest "find"  is a basement store in a shopping centre  with an entrance from a main entrance foyer by standard unprotected lift and four escape staircases - one in each corner - all up of course. And someone has put an evac chair in the bottom of the stairs. I havn't worked that one out yet.

[Ken Taylor]

I know that Kurnal is going to send you the technical stuff, Donna but, basically, an evacuation lift is one that can be used by building management for evacuating persons when safe to do so because it is designed so that the lift enclosure and the power supply(ies) will have protection from fire. Generally they return to the final exit floor when the fire alarm sounds and then management can operate a switch which gives control of the lift to the panel in the lift car only so that they can take it to floors where persons need assistance and bring them down. A communication system is installed for this purpose. Some buildings have firefighting lifts for use by firefighters and these may also be used in a similar way until the FRS arrive - subject to the usual risk assessments.