Self closers-min/max time to close a fire door

[Pip]

Please can anybody help out here.I have trawled various BS/EN's and have either not found/missed/misunderstood the answer(if there is one):
What is the minimum time that a self-closer should close a fire door in(don't want to bowl people over)?
What is the maximum time that a self-closer should close a fire door in(would like the door to close before the building burns down)
Obviously there are situations where the door should close slower/less forcefully than others
All the various tests suggest 3-20 secs but are those figures for test purposes only?

[alanfcox]

The answer to this quite simple - you need to carry out a risk assessment on the door and its hardware. You have obviously found various times in different standards and guides and you will find that there is no standard time that fits all scenarios. Take a bank - the Security Officer always wants the door to close as quickly as possible to prevent "tailgating" by unauthorised persons, whilst in a hospital or residential care unit, the door should give the occupants time to pass through without causing injury. This is why you have identified such a large time span. Unfortunately,this problem does not get the attention that it deserves because it is more often than not overlooked at the design stage. What should be carried out is a Door Access Survey which would identify all these problems and produce a Door Hardware Specification. It is my experience that the architect or builder will usually provide the cheapest closer that will fit in with the scheme and completely overlook this aspect.

[Fishy]

The important thing is that the door is likely to be closed when it's required to perform its fire and smoke resisting function.  In this context, if you're measuring closing time in seconds I'd suggest that it isn't a problem.  If you're measuring it in minutes, it probably is!  On the minimum time - adjust the closers so that they close the door slowly and steadily, but are still capable of overcoming the latch (if fitted), if opened from any angle.  Make sure they don't slam closed - this can become annoying and lead to the door being wedged open.

[jasper]

one thing you must also consider is DDA and fire doors, as they have guidance on the max force a fire door should close

[Firewolf]

Fire doors in residential care homes should close slowly so as not to strike an immobile or elderly person who may be attempting to walk through the doorway - this is something CSCI (Commission For Social Care Inspection) insist upon.

[Pip]

Thanks for your replies

[Markbr]

Jasper, do you know what the stated force is or what standard that requirement relates to? I have heard something about Document M compliance???

Thanks, Mark

[kurnal]

Mark
The BS8300 "the design of buildings and their approaches" recommends a range of options depending on the situation. A summary is:

General doors that are not fire resisting doors- 20Newtons closing force at the leading edge. any closing device to exert its maximum force within a narrow arc of 0 and 15 degrees of final closed position

fire resisting doors- on a circulation route, if force exceeds 20 newtons then a swing free  closer should be fitted

If the doors always have a push action eg exit doors opening into a stairway not used as an access route maximum 30 newtons

Fire doors within flats or hotels suites  maximum 15 newtons

There is a warning about the effects of smoke seals on opening forces..

As you say there is also information on this topic in approved document M which is available for free download via the communities.gov.uk website- the approved document follows the standard for 20Newtons generally and cross references to BS8300.

Hope this helps

[Markbr]

Yes that is most helpful, thank you.

[Martin Burford]

Pip
Try the LCN door closer web site.
Conqueror