Upgrade fire doors

[Dinnertime Dave]

On the spot fines make sense where there are strict black and white rules and no place for risk assessment, such as the public highways.  But I'll be interested to see how we are guided to apply these in the world of risk assessment and informed (or otherwise) judgement.

Stu,

You only have to read some of the threads on this forum to see examples of over zealous inspecting officers. I find it a little worrying.

Also, will it work anything like parking enforcement will I get a performance related bonus?

[jokar]

So an on the spot fine is issued but is the premises safer than it was before!  An enforcing officer has recently stated that he will not accept a fire door set as it has no certification.  There is nothing wrong with the door set but the school concerned has no paper trail for the doors which met a standard of years ago.  Is this an on the spot fine, or a Stop Notice.  I agree with Stu that black and white issues are seemingly easy, but although there is a Fire Consulatncy called Black and White Fire safety, in my years I have never come across a black and white solution, therefore surely there can be no on the spot fines levied unless that failure is no Fire Risk Assessment which is the legal requirement.  However, as noticed many times before on this forum, it is not only the question of an FRA but the quality of it as well.

[Mike Buckley]

I have had a quick look at the Bill. Yes it makes a case for fines instead of court action.

However there is another aspect of the bill which is setting up the Local Better Regulation Office the job of which is to ensure that regulations are imposed uniformly across the country. In the consultation document it uses a case where a large firm with sites in different authorities used the system to get overall approval for their action. One authority took the firm to court for using the overall approval and not obeying the local ruling. The authority lost and had to pay £15000 costs.

Part 1 of the Bill sets up the means for establishing cross authority approvals via Primary Authorities. Schedule 3 lists the Designated Regulators which includes the Fire Authorities however the designated enactments does not include the RRO.

I can see this heading the way of the fire authorities particularly over the different interpretations of the guidance notes.

[slubberdegullion]

I am worried about hi-jacking the objective of this thread and think that, if there is discussion to be had in this area, we should have a separate thread.  I'll start one off....

In the mean time please return to the main thrust of this thread....

Stu

[frex]

Thanks for all the replies. I had a meeting with the team leader of our local FB. He said that he has an obligation to make it clear in writing that the current doors do not meet the latest standard, and under the new laws, an enforcement notice is the only official way of doing it. He said that he is not really bothered about the doors and if I give him an action plan of replacing the doors over 2 years or so he will be happy and this solution will satisfy the enforcement notice. I am quite happy with this as I had started replacing the doors already, as I redecorate each room etc, but couldn't afford to do them all in 6 months.

[kurnal]

I am pleased you have reached a satisfactory conclusion but either that team leader has a great deal to learn about the fire safety order or- more likely- he has used the Bluff and Persuasion Act 1872 to extract himself from a hole.