fire safety training

[martyn brandrick]

I read with interest another thread regarding the training of fire safety officers, it warrants a topic of its own. In my humble opinion the soldier FSO is exposed and the ramifications for poor a judgement could be costly and embarrasing. (Rock and hard place. copyright AW)

A recognised qualification (IFE,SNVQ,Edxell, etc etc) coupled together with a good accredited course taught by those who know and a proper development plan will help keep the service from ultimately, the court.  

Certain people can use fire safety to reach senior positions and techies can still be service managers.

Fire Safety is as imprtant now as it was FPA71, we have changed the legislation but not the principles.

Management do realise the importance and must ensure they are complying with the legislation they enforce.

What changed?  

I think competition to the college.  The college took the eye of the ball and did not keep up. They had a great product but took to long to turn the boat (petrol tanker) and left the door (and welcomed) in the competition.

Nationally we need to get this right again, RPs/ duty holders require a profesional service.

FSC in partnership with others and FRS to deliver a nationally agreed standard course that can be tailored to individual organisations that ultimately lead to a qualification that can fit in with Role map/snvq.

FSC still has the potential to deliver what is required but not in isolation,look around! CFOA has a part to play and once the legislation issues settle we can lift our heads from the tactical and look long term and sort it out. (hopefully)

[johno67]

I still don't believe that senior management in the fire service take the role of the fire safety department seriously. It would be interesting to see how many members of CFOA have actually served any amount of time in fire safety. Would they rather be playing with new rubber boats for flooding / model helicopters for observation of fires, or working to reduce the numbers of fires caused by cigarettes for example?

The fire service college haven't taken it seriously for a long time. It has been fairly obvious for a long time that very little time was allocated to the development of staff or courses. They seemed to just do enough, which Brigades quite rightly aren't prepared to accept anymore.

What are the Government's targets for the fire service? Reduction in accidental fire deaths in the home and a reduction in arson (which counts as a crime and disorder issue anyway). So we have 1 target, which has nothing to do with the legisative side of fire safety anyway.

You are quite right, there does need to be a national curriculum for fire safety, which could be based around the National Occupational Standards for fire safety. But who's going to write it? There could be examinations similar to the FSEB Statutory Exams for Ff, Sub O and Stn O.

I don't think the fire service college should be given the exclusive right to run the courses. I think that they need to earn that right. I think there are some extremely good training providers out there who at this moment in time are doing a much better job.

I have to disagree with you to a certain extent, as I think that the principles of fire safety have changed significantly. It was only ever about protection, i.e. how are we going to get people out of the building safely if there is a fire. Now the protection measures come right at the end, after all of the preventative measures have been addressed and exhausted. A lot of fire safety officers still haven't got their heads around this concept and still start with the means of escape, fire alarm, emergency lighting etc. (even after attending courses!)

[slubberdegullion]

Would they rather be playing with new rubber boats for flooding / model helicopters for observation of fires

We have a hot air balloon!!!!!!!

...national curriculum for fire safety, which could be based around the National Occupational Standards for fire safety

One thing that I don't like is the fact that the level 4 NOS for fire safety has hazardous material stuff in it.  It doesn't sit right.  I believe they put it in to beef up the area of study required.  To me, it has no place in there - there's plenty of more technical fire safety stuff that could do a much more appropriate job of beefing up!

Stu

[johno67]

Totally agree with the haz mats issue Stu! I think the knowledge elements from the NOS are a good starting point though.

Do you use the hot gases from the fire to inflate your balloon?

[wee brian]

Was the balloon comment a joke? - I hope so.

[slubberdegullion]

Was the balloon comment a joke? - I hope so.

Sadly not.

£40,000 apparently.

Plus whatever running costs are involved.

Public money.

I'll have to paraphrase this, but the principle managers sell the balloon by stating that hot air balloons have a proven track record in raising public awareness for an organisation.  Now maybe I'm mistaken but I think that most people in the community already know that there is a fire brigade.

If it had been in the shape of a smoke alarm with some message about testing your alarm I might have seen some point to it other than providing senior managers with something to do instead of golf.

However, back to the topic in question:

Marty, there are a number of routes fire safety people can take, aren't there?  There's the BTECs and foundation degree through the FSC, there's S/NVQs at different levels, there's the IFE exams, there are various degrees around the country - some block release, and there are post grad courses.  

All are recognised widely as being beneficial and desirable - oh, except by one organisation.  The one that employs the enforcers, the people with the ultimate say, the fire service.

Johno, your comments about changing emphasis from protection to prevention is right in line with what fire services have been directed to point their attention to (of course).  I don't think they're doing it very effectively; but, as we're talking about training, Richard Johnes at the FSC runs community safety courses and has a large take up on BTEC qualifications among his delegates.  A much larger take up than technical fire safety.  

Maybe the most qualified body in fire safety will be the community safety people.  Maybe that's the way it should be.

I don't know...

Stu