Author Topic: Gas Suppression Systems (Inergen, Argonite FM-200etc)  (Read 17993 times)

Offline russpc

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Gas Suppression Systems (Inergen, Argonite FM-200etc)
« on: December 03, 2007, 04:32:33 PM »
I hope I have posted this in the correct forum...

I am looking for information or research on possible adverse health effects of the gases commonly used within I.T. data centres (Inergen, Argonite, FM-200) on people with certain health conditions.

Although these gases are designed to be safe for "fit" individuals, would persons with conditions such as Ashtma or with heart related problems be at a significantly elevated risk if caught within a gas release?

Gut feeling would say tht these people would be at increased risk but I am after some hard facts.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Russ

Offline kurnal

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Gas Suppression Systems (Inergen, Argonite FM-200etc)
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 05:35:58 PM »
Take a look at the wagner oxyreduct website. I know they are selling but theres some good info there. Inergen is very similar in principle  but uses stored gases with an enhanced argon content if I recall correctly.

Chris Houston

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Gas Suppression Systems (Inergen, Argonite FM-200etc)
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 07:55:05 PM »
The best people to ask would be the manufacturers.

Offline slubberdegullion

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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 10:56:49 PM »
You mention two different types of extinguishing media.

First there are the things like Inergen and Argonite which comprise merely the gases that we breathe with every breath anyway (eg Nitrogen and Argon).  These work by reducing the oxygen level in the protected space below the level where combustion is supported.  Because they're not toxic it's not that easy to get the information you're looking for.

I've been in a room where Inergen was released to the point where combustion could not take place and I wouldn't have known the atmosphere was any different to normal.  But I'm a bit insensitive.  Argonite probably would have been different because it doesn't contain the carbon dioxide to boost respiration.  Having said that, I'd have little doubt that an asthmatic person might suffer in such an atmosphere.  Some struggle in much higher levels than the 12, 13 or 14% that these systems take the level to.

Things like FM200 (a hydrofluorocarbon) do not significantly reduce the oxygen level but interfere with the combustion process in much the same way that the Halons used to.  The HFCs come with a NOAEL  - a "no observable adverse effects level."  Note that it says no observable adverse effects.  The only thing you can be certain of is that above the NOAEL some adverse effects are observable.  And that's in "fit" people.  The NOAEL is usually close to the extinguishing level so generally it's not a good idea to hang about in these atmospheres.

In general, any installation should have warning facilities and time delays on discharge to ensure that anyone in the space at the time of the fire can be out of the space before discharge takes place.  The only contingency is that someone may have fallen or may be unable to leave for some other reason before discharge. This must be considered and dealt with through strict safety procedures and management controls.

That's my advice - but I'm not an expert...

Stu

Offline Pete M

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Gas Suppression Systems (Inergen, Argonite FM-200etc)
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 12:16:31 AM »
Have to agree - having been in an oxyreduct environment where comnbustion is not supported (I must clarify here that we are talking about 'normal' combustion in oxygen) I noticed no difficulty in breathing, no increase in respiration etc.

Halon and its derivative as Stu suggests intwerfere with the branch chain reaction we are all conversant with.  However there have proven to be drawbacks with their use (forget global warming).

CO2 - another kettle of fish.

Offline Ashley Wood

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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 08:50:06 AM »
I recall the US Coast Guard or similar doing some trials on extinguishent gases 2 or 3 years ago. Would be worth doing a quick Google on the US Coast Guard trials.

Offline russpc

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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 09:17:06 AM »
Thanks for all your replys.

Russ

Offline Fishy

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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2007, 09:34:50 AM »
The LPC produced a report entitled "Halon Alternatives" (ISBN 0 902167 03-0) back in JUly 1996.  Included an appraisal of their extinguishing properties and adverse effects.  I would imagine that the BRE may still have copies for sale.

Offline jokar

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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2007, 05:30:42 PM »
I have been in a oxygen reduced atmosphere and it had an effect on me, I have an airways disease and it caused me to go very dizzy.  If you speak to the staff at Wagner they will tell you that health surveillance is a must and that for the majority a  4hour working limit is expected with a 30 minute break,

Offline russpc

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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2008, 04:23:39 PM »
Thanks Fishy,

 I found the document as a pdf on the BRE website. Its pretty much what I was looking for. Page 11 of document states that persons with known medical problems, such as overt cardio-respiratory disease, should not be exposed to oxygen deficiant atmospheres or atmospheres containing any fire fighting agent that would put them at risk.

web address below -

http://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/rpts/halon_alternative/HAG_report.pdf

Russ

Offline Nick G

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Gas Suppression Systems (Inergen, Argonite FM-200etc)
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 05:25:47 PM »
All total flooding systems that are internationally approved for use in occupied spaces are safe for use if the systems are both designed properly and then installed correctly strictly according to the hydraulic calculations and iso designs.

In terms of which extinguishing agent to select; inert gas systems and clean agent (FM-200 and Novec-1230) systems are all acceptable for use in server room environments. (Of course I exclude CO2 total flooding - as CO2 really should not be used for occupiable spaces on safety grounds).

According to industry data:
The extinguishing agent with the widest safety margin between design concentration and LOAEL is Novec1230. Safety Margin in excess of 50%
Next is FM-200. FM-200 is a propellant used in inhalers used by asthma sufferers. Safety Margin is approximately 10%
Last are the inert gases which have a safety margin below 10%.

However, Unlike Chemical Agents, Inert Gases will not create breakdown products on exposure to a surface in excess of 500 deg C - but if the Clean Agent systems are installed and designed correctly this becomes a non-issue.

Inert Gas systems are high pressure discharges that displace up to 40% of ambient atmosphere to reduce oxygen levels sufficiently. The displaced atmosphere needs to be vented through wall vents to avoid over pressurization and damage to people and property. If the server room is an internal room then the venting needs to be cascaded wall to wall until the pressure can be vented to outside the building.

Inert Gas systems typically require 6 - 8 times more storage space than a clean agent system (needs more 4-6 times the cylinder capacity than clean agent) and also requires high pressure discharge pipe and fittings.

Clean Agent systems require schedule 40 pipe and fittings.

Inert Gas systems are low cost to refill as the extinguishing gas "per kilo" is low cost.
Clean Agent systems are higher cost to refill as the extinguishing gas is significantly more expensive.

Inert Gas systems being high pressure can be installed further away from the hazard area as they have enough pressure to "push" the gas over a longer distance.

Clean Agent systems (the cylinders) being smaller and lower pressure tend to be installed in the hazard area or in an adjoining room ie nearer by.

All Total flooding systems should be released following a pre-alarm which permits occupants to vacate the area prior to discharge. This is normally a 30 second delay following "2nd knock".

Apart form total flooding systems there are also "in-cabinet" solutions available that detect and suppress fires inside/on the particular fire hazards. These systems use the same clean extinguishing agents as the total flooding systems but instead of total flooding rooms the systems are much smaller and are designed to protect the individual server racks, cable ducts, switch gear etc rather than the entire room. AS such these present a smaller or no impact on any occupants.

Hope this is useful.

Offline kurnal

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Gas Suppression Systems (Inergen, Argonite FM-200etc)
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 05:44:26 PM »
Useful? Thats a brilliant comparison and summary. Thanks Nick- come back soon- and often.