Fire Alarm Monitoring

[Midland Retty]

Would like to pick your brains if I may on the subject of monitoring of fire alarm systems

BS 5839 Pt 1 recommends that the control panel of a fire alarms system be checked once every 24 hours for faults etc.

But for say something like a hotel or other sleeping risk such as a residential care, would you expect the panel to be within easy reach of say the receptionist / night porter or senior nurse so that they know very quickly of a fault occuring at any time during the day or night and thus be in a position to investigate it, call out an engineer and / or if required put in temporary measures in place to ensure the premises get a suitable level of protection until the engineer can attend to check it out.

Or is that just too onerous in your opinion.

Ive looked at BS 5839 and the new RRO guides but cant find anything specifically referring to the fact that alarms should be actively monitored in the way I suggest above.

I know we are in the days of risk assessment but does anyone know of any guides or standards that suggest this?.

Cheers

[nearlythere]

Is it not just a question of a quick visual to make sure it is still there, looks ok and the fault light is not illuminated.

[kurnal]

As nearlythere says the daily check is just the visual to check for faults (and that any reported previously have been dealt with).

The siting of the panel takes account of how the building is used - if there is a supervised control room or reception in a continuously staffed building it should ideally be sited there- but if the building is often unoccupied it needs to be sited close to the firefighters main access point ideally so they can see it even before breaking into the building. But there are no mandatory rules on siting of panels- just recommendations to be considered by the system designer.

[Midland Retty]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your replies.

But going back to the hotel scenario - what if a fault were to occur overnight to the fire alarm system, lets say an arsonist disables the fire alarm system at a panel in a hotel annexe and then starts a fire. As aconsequence it fails to detect a fire which has started somewhere and as a result residents are put at serious risk or worse.

Owing to the fact it is a hotel,is it reasonable to expect that alarm system be monitored 24/7 or is once a day enough? again what if a fault occured which diabled the fire alarm system?

Could you argue to a magistrate that checking the panel once every 24 hours is sufficient?.

[nearlythere]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your replies.

But going back to the hotel scenario - what if a fault were to occur overnight to the fire alarm system, lets say an arsonist disables the fire alarm system at a panel in a hotel annexe and then starts a fire. As aconsequence it fails to detect a fire which has started somewhere and as a result residents are put at serious risk or worse.

Owing to the fact it is a hotel,is it reasonable to expect that alarm system be monitored 24/7 or is once a day enough? again what if a fault occured which diabled the fire alarm system?

Could you argue to a magistrate that checking the panel once every 24 hours is sufficient?.

You wil probably find that the panel is lockable, usually. There will be windows on the cover to enable you to monitor its status.
If you check the panel daily and a fault indicator is not indicating such then that should be sufficient.
Thats really all you can be expected to do daily. A fault can develope at any second, but you can't be expected to employ anyone to sit and stare at the panel 24/7.
Are you doing a RA or enquiring as the hotel manager?

[Midland Retty]

I'm neither to be honest Nearlythere :p

Im just gathering opinion on that type of scenario to be honest - it was one of those nagging questions I had in the back of my mind.

I realise the scenario I describe would be a rare occurence  (It has been known for arsonists to disable a fire alarm system - but for a completely catastrophic failure of the fire alarm system to occur due another unspecified fault as I described is highly unlikely) and I fully agree with your comments.

I think I need to stop thinking of bizzare fire safety scenarios when Im in bed at night and get a more active social life

[Mike Buckley]

The problem with making things fool proof is fools are so damn ingenious.

Thinking of bizzare fire scenarios is a valuable and entertaining task. I remember whilst working on a control room project we had arranged a whole tier of fall back systems to ensure that the control room could still turn out the pumps. We finally arrived at the scenario when the entire global eltectronic communication system had collapsed. The penny finally dropped that for some part of the scenario although the control room could mobilise the fire stations no-one else could communicate with the control room to inform them of an incident in the first place!

Having said that, although the scenario you describe would be a rare occurence at a hotel, it is a very valid situation for the establishments where the guests are kept at Her Majesty's pleasure.

[kurnal]

Just to put this in perspective, I understand  from a previous thread on this forum that  one hotel chain does not even have staff present at night.

[nearlythere]

I'm neither to be honest Nearlythere :p

Im just gathering opinion on that type of scenario to be honest - it was one of those nagging questions I had in the back of my mind.

I realise the scenario I describe would be a rare occurence  (It has been known for arsonists to disable a fire alarm system - but for a completely catastrophic failure of the fire alarm system to occur due another unspecified fault as I described is highly unlikely) and I fully agree with your comments.

I think I need to stop thinking of bizzare fire safety scenarios when Im in bed at night and get a more active social life

Do you lie on your own?
Have you nothing better to do?
I have a contact where you can get some help. Go to 126 Portabella Road. Ask for Vixen and tell her that Puppy sent you.

[Midland Retty]

The long suffering Mrs Midland Retty prefers reading her Mills & Boon in bed let alone chatting to me or anything else.

So through sheer boredom (and not wanting to have to look at the Mrs - most people understand why I worked night shifts) I read my entire collection of "Encyclopedia Brittanica". I got them at the bargain price of £350 from a one legged door salesman and they took me three years to read. Worth every penny

Since then I now found myself at a loose end and so get my kicks by coming up with outlandish and surreal fire scenarios to which even Red Adaire would have difficulty comprehending.

Hope that answers your question Im off now cos nurse says its time for my injections and plus Fireman Sam is on in a bit.

Poodletip

[kurnal]

Midland Retty I have been watching you for some time and would like you to accompany me to Dr Wiz's  care home for the bewildered. Knock three times on the pipe at the foot of the stairs in the Technical forum.  Matron will welcome you into her ample bosum and that nice Dr Wiz has something that will help your condition. We do offer free bars in every window and a goblin teasmaid in every room.

[Midland Retty]

Kurnal

Firstly thank you for your most generous offer.

As tempting as it is I'm afraid 'her indoors' would never allow that ( i havent finished decorating the kitchen yet) and my weekly commitments to the Church of St Lucians and all Virgins  (I am their reserve font) - will mean I just cant spare the time.

Failing that my friendly neighbour (who always seems to be inspecting the inside of my wardrobe - he claims there is an outbreak of wood rot coming from somewhere) said he'd be more than happy to meet matron and any one of her bosoms, except on Tuesdays when he religiously mows his drive.

Tutty Bye