Example FRA proforma issued by Scottish Government

[novascot]

Please go to this link:

http://www.infoscotland.com/firelaw/v2.jsp?pContentID=240


 and give comments on an NHS organisation producing this kind of proforma. I don't know whether there are any persons in that organisation with formal Fire Safety qualifications. (Not that has hindered many.)

The examples are at the foot of the page.

The example given for Care Homes has the actions required as  complying with the benchmark standards which are in effect The Technical Standards for Building Regulations (Scotland). ie New Build.

To me it is hardly a risk assessment. The headings are all there but using the Benchmarks  are making this a prescriptive Assessment. I thought we were getting away from that.

This is obviously aimed at the Responsible Person carrying out their own FRA. But on a Residential Care Home post Rosepark?

[stewbow]

One of the examples is for a HMO, and has a lot to do with the inside of the flats. Am i not correct in saying that the RRO only covers the communal areas of HMO's and not the actual flats? (apart from the doors to the flats that lead onto any escape route, and the detector within the flat that protects the front door)

[Ricardo]

Please go to this link:

http://www.infoscotland.com/firelaw/v2.jsp?pContentID=240


 and give comments on an NHS organisation producing this kind of proforma. I don't know whether there are any persons in that organisation with formal Fire Safety qualifications. (Not that has hindered many.)

The examples are at the foot of the page.

The example given for Care Homes has the actions required as  complying with the benchmark standards which are in effect The Technical Standards for Building Regulations (Scotland). ie New Build.

To me it is hardly a risk assessment. The headings are all there but using the Benchmarks  are making this a prescriptive Assessment. I thought we were getting away from that.

This is obviously aimed at the Responsible Person carrying out their own FRA. But on a Residential Care Home post Rosepark?

I dont exactly see it that way, these forms are mere examples only as stated,yes indeed there are benchmarks contained within the guides, but it does state clearly within all the guides that the dutyholder does not need to follow the benchmark guidance at all, the guides are merely examples of fire safety measures that may or may not be suitable in a particular case.

The benchmarks will not be relevant in all cases and each risk assessment will be site specific with the dutyholder making decisions in respect of fire safety measures based on judgement of risk. They are provided to assist with the assessment of the adequacy of existing fire safety measures.

  The Scottish Executive have made it perfectly clear to all enforcing authorities through the issue of Scottish Fire and Rescue Service circulars that all personnel involved with the enforcement of Part 3 of the legilstaion need to be aware that the benchmarks are not designed to be used as prescription requirements as that would be at odds with the principles of risk assessment.
Stevebow, HMO's differ in their requirements under Scottish fire legislation than south of the border, In Scotland inside of flats come under the legislation.

[kurnal]

Well to be honest if that care home risk assessment  was presented to me by a care home manager I would congratulate them and tell them they probably dont need my services. I would probe their evacuation plan a little more deeply than the document implies it has been.
As for benchmark standards, care homes have been screwed down so tight for so long many of them meet the benchmark standard.

But even now you come across many problems that somehow have been missed. Last two I did were purpose built 1990s building- one had big problems with the alarm set up- detection zones overlapping protected areas in all cases making a nonsense of theevacuation plan, escape lighting not configured to subcircuit failure, no escape lighting in the lift. The other had lovely wide corridors of 1.4m throughout but 1000mm stairs and 780mm exit doors- all of them. How could that have happened? And what can I do about it now? ( recommended extra corridor subdivision and rewrote the fire plan)

[lambie]

The format of the risk assessment documents discussed here are not specific to the NHS and can be found not just in Scotland but South too. I was pleased to read Kurnal and Ricardo's comments as I use this sort of template as an aide to assessment. I find it galling that on occasion it is almost dimissed as the IO does the inspection and is  conforming to the prescriptive by applying the benchmarks as if rigid and to be frank the risk assessment document is neither here nor there. The other galling factor is that there is no consistancy in applying the new Regulations and it could be that what one sees another does not. I beleive that for all the informed comment here there is a void of understanding out there and now there are road shows coming to educate the great unaware.  How the awareness sessions should have been in place at least a year ago and were not amazes me. Rant over

[novascot]

Ricardo.
My problem is not in the proforma, all the required elements are there. My point was that issuing this document is going to encourage Duty Holders to carry out their own FRA on complex buildings and the vast majority of Duty Holders I have met do not have the requisite experience, skills, et al.
Would they spot an extended corridor in a RES Care Home with 14 rooms as being a problem? Most do not even know of the recomendations given in SHTM 84. The guides don't fill in the blanks. The comments sections have to have constructive comments with reasons why or why not certain factors have been accepted or not and any compensatory features discussed. Your average RR will not be able to do that.

Time will tell when these are audited and a flurry of Enforcement Notices are issued. Good luck to them though.

Regarding the roadshows; I have heard that the vast majority of attendees are self employed/sole traders working in very small workplaces. It is perhaps not these people who need the input??

[Ricardo]

I agree, it aint going to be easy, I have also seen many having made an attempt to conduct their own FSRA, and their efforts to be blunt are of a poor standard, and many others have not even made an attempt, I have even seen a care home FSRA having been conducted by an off duty operational firefighter with absolutely very little knowledge of what is needed under the legislation, that made me angry that someone like that would even offer their services to such a complex premises used by such vulnerable people, I persuaded their management to see sence and  to get competent assistance as opposed to incompetent assistance.

In the absence of a fire safety risk assessment record, I need to establish what, if any control measures are in place, this can then form a starting point for my audit.
For a dutyholder to understand and accept the responsibilities of the legisltion is seen to me as one of the primary purposes of the audit process.
I can then gauge the dutyholders undertsanding of their responsibilities and it also provides me with an oportunity to "inform and educate" them. But again it aint easy all the time getting the message through to some.