Retail Unit

[Allen Higginson]

Just wondering (and bear in mind Im in NI) - what are the regulations regarding fire alarm systems and emergency exit crash bars in relation to a retail unit?
My query stems from a local multi-chain DVD library which comprises of approximately 12m by 12m of open floor retail space with a main double entrance door and a side double door to the rear.
Now,as it stands,there is no fire alarm system installed - I had thought that this was due to it being an open area and so any smoke could be seen and staff could raise the alarm verbally.However,what about when the staff are on their own in the store room they have to pass through the retail area to reach the exits.
On the subject of the exits,the one to the side is normally locked with no crash bar,thumb lock or any sort of quick release opening device - I take it this is a problem?
Strangely enough,the premises reopened after being gutted by a malicious fire (at this time they had a fire alarm system with AFD)!

[nearlythere]

Going on the description of the retail area it would be likely that the main entrance is adequate as the sole means of escape because the travel distance to it from any point in the retail area would appear to be satisfactory.
A fire alarm sytem is unlikely to be a requirement unless the number of employees in the overall building is more than 20 or more than 10 other than on the ground floor. In some cases it is reasonable for a means of giving warning in the event of fire to be vocal.
If the store room does not have its own means of escape it can be classed as an inner room to the retail area and as such there are certain conditions to be met for it to be satisfactory.
If the side exit is not required for escape purposes and is not indicated as an escape route then it can be secured.
A Fire Risk Assessment, which by law should have been carried out, would highlight any shortcomings.
This is the best I can do with the description of the layout you have given.

[Allen Higginson]

Going on the description of the retail area it would be likely that the main entrance is adequate as the sole means of escape because the travel distance to it from any point in the retail area would appear to be satisfactory.
A fire alarm sytem is unlikely to be a requirement unless the number of employees in the overall building is more than 20 or more than 10 other than on the ground floor. In some cases it is reasonable for a means of giving warning in the event of fire to be vocal.
If the store room does not have its own means of escape it can be classed as an inner room to the retail area and as such there are certain conditions to be met for it to be satisfactory.
If the side exit is not required for escape purposes and is not indicated as an escape route then it can be secured.
A Fire Risk Assessment, which by law should have been carried out, would highlight any shortcomings.
This is the best I can do with the description of the layout you have given.

I think that covers all the queries put forward - there would be no more than four employees at any one time.
Thanks for that.

[Chris Houston]

Assuming the RR(FS)O covers NI and there are no differences between NI and Eng laws, it all comes down to the Fire Safety Risk assessment.  I think the normal guidance would not require fire alarm for safety purposes, but following a malicious fire, I'm surprised it has not been considered for property protection/insurance issues.

[AnthonyB]

From the description as you say it meets travel distances for one exit and is very similar to the premises used as an illustrated example in the back of the entry level guide to the RRO. Because of the store room the entry guide illustration shows a pt6 detector head to the main retail area to give early warning (access room to inner room)and the same may be advisable in this case

[Allen Higginson]

Assuming the RR(FS)O covers NI and there are no differences between NI and Eng laws, it all comes down to the Fire Safety Risk assessment.  I think the normal guidance would not require fire alarm for safety purposes, but following a malicious fire, I'm surprised it has not been considered for property protection/insurance issues.

The Fire Safety (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2006 is what (or is to) apply over here - Im still not sure if it's went through yet due to the comings and goings of our elected assembly members!
It seems to resemble the Scottish model.
With regards to property protection I too am surprised that AFD via Redcare wasn't insisted upon,as all was left of the previous building was the external walls (mind,the AFD didn't help in that occasion).

[nearlythere]

Assuming the RR(FS)O covers NI and there are no differences between NI and Eng laws, it all comes down to the Fire Safety Risk assessment.  I think the normal guidance would not require fire alarm for safety purposes, but following a malicious fire, I'm surprised it has not been considered for property protection/insurance issues.

The Fire Safety (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2006 is what (or is to) apply over here - Im still not sure if it's went through yet due to the comings and goings of our elected assembly members!
It seems to resemble the Scottish model.
With regards to property protection I too am surprised that AFD via Redcare wasn't insisted upon,as all was left of the previous building was the external walls (mind,the AFD didn't help in that occasion).

The fire safety sections of the new Fire and Rescue Service (NI) Order have not as yet commenced and until then the fire safety sections of the Fire Services Order 1984 still applies. There is also a requirement under the Fire Precautions Workplace (N.I.)Regs 2001 for a Fire Risk Assessment to be carried out.

[nearlythere]

Going on the description of the retail area it would be likely that the main entrance is adequate as the sole means of escape because the travel distance to it from any point in the retail area would appear to be satisfactory.
A fire alarm sytem is unlikely to be a requirement unless the number of employees in the overall building is more than 20 or more than 10 other than on the ground floor. In some cases it is reasonable for a means of giving warning in the event of fire to be vocal.
If the store room does not have its own means of escape it can be classed as an inner room to the retail area and as such there are certain conditions to be met for it to be satisfactory.
If the side exit is not required for escape purposes and is not indicated as an escape route then it can be secured.
A Fire Risk Assessment, which by law should have been carried out, would highlight any shortcomings.
This is the best I can do with the description of the layout you have given.

I think that covers all the queries put forward - there would be no more than four employees at any one time.
Thanks for that.

There may only be 4 employees on the premises but if the premises are part of a building where there are more than 20 persons employed or more than 10 on other than the ground floor then they will need a fire certificate under the 1884 Order. Under the 1984 Order this will mean a fire alarm system being required in the building.

[kurnal]

The fire safety sections of the new Fire and Rescue Service (NI) Order have not as yet commenced and until then the fire safety sections of the Fire Services Order 1984 still applies. There is also a requirement under the Fire Precautions Workplace (N.I.)Regs 2001 for a Fire Risk Assessment to be carried out.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this nearlythere. Whats causing the hold up? Is there any danger of the whole thing being shelved?

That would be a mess from the UK wide approach point of view.

[nearlythere]

The fire safety sections of the new Fire and Rescue Service (NI) Order have not as yet commenced and until then the fire safety sections of the Fire Services Order 1984 still applies. There is also a requirement under the Fire Precautions Workplace (N.I.)Regs 2001 for a Fire Risk Assessment to be carried out.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this nearlythere. Whats causing the hold up? Is there any danger of the whole thing being shelved?

That would be a mess from the UK wide approach point of view.

No. It is all go on this, albeit slowly as you can tell. Under NI legislation there has be a public consultation on the Regulations which takes 3 months. This has not happened yet. Commencement would then take place 1 month later. It is expected that the remainder of the Order and the Regulations will be commenced around the end of this year (ish).
So really, every day that nothing happens we are at least 4 months away from it coming into effect.

[Allen Higginson]

Going on the description of the retail area it would be likely that the main entrance is adequate as the sole means of escape because the travel distance to it from any point in the retail area would appear to be satisfactory.
A fire alarm sytem is unlikely to be a requirement unless the number of employees in the overall building is more than 20 or more than 10 other than on the ground floor. In some cases it is reasonable for a means of giving warning in the event of fire to be vocal.
If the store room does not have its own means of escape it can be classed as an inner room to the retail area and as such there are certain conditions to be met for it to be satisfactory.
If the side exit is not required for escape purposes and is not indicated as an escape route then it can be secured.
A Fire Risk Assessment, which by law should have been carried out, would highlight any shortcomings.
This is the best I can do with the description of the layout you have given.

I think that covers all the queries put forward - there would be no more than four employees at any one time.
Thanks for that.

There may only be 4 employees on the premises but if the premises are part of a building where there are more than 20 persons employed or more than 10 on other than the ground floor then they will need a fire certificate under the 1884 Order. Under the 1984 Order this will mean a fire alarm system being required in the building.

It's a stand alone single storey unit.However,it would appear that a fire certificate is still required due to public access under Fire Services Order 1984

[nearlythere]

I think that covers all the queries put forward - there would be no more than four employees at any one time.
Thanks for that.

There may only be 4 employees on the premises but if the premises are part of a building where there are more than 20 persons employed or more than 10 on other than the ground floor then they will need a fire certificate under the 1884 Order. Under the 1984 Order this will mean a fire alarm system being required in the building.

It's a stand alone single storey unit.However,it would appear that a fire certificate is still required due to public access under Fire Services Order 1984

Public access does not make it certifiable B905. Does it have some gaming machines?

[nearlythere]

The fire safety sections of the new Fire and Rescue Service (NI) Order have not as yet commenced and until then the fire safety sections of the Fire Services Order 1984 still applies. There is also a requirement under the Fire Precautions Workplace (N.I.)Regs 2001 for a Fire Risk Assessment to be carried out.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this nearlythere. Whats causing the hold up? Is there any danger of the whole thing being shelved?

That would be a mess from the UK wide approach point of view.

No. It is all go on this, albeit slowly as you can tell. Under NI legislation there has be a public consultation on the Regulations which takes 3 months. This has not happened yet. Commencement would then take place 1 month later. It is expected that the remainder of the Order and the Regulations will be commenced around the end of this year (ish).
So really, every day that nothing happens we are at least 4 months away from it coming into effect.

Forget to add that being Irish we don't like things to happen too quickly.