Fire extinguisher rating for Class A fires

[Ashley Wood]

I recently did a fire risk assessment on a block of flats. The housing association used to place extinguishers on each landing until one night somebody used one as a battering ram to smash a flat door down, they then proceeded to try and kill a woman with the extinguisher! Since that first attack the association has replaced extinguishers due to them being vandalised, put through car windscreens or again for breaking in to flats. I have advised them to withdraw the extinguishers from the site as part of my fire risk assessment. This may be a rare location and situation?

[AnthonyB]

Is there anything in the common parts that could be involved in the initial stages of a fire? Most flat blocks common parts I've seen contain little if anything other than painted walls and a bit of carpet, maybe a plant or two, and few primary ignition sources, so you are unlikely to get an early stage fire here for extinguishers to be used on.

You could mention the flats themselves, but unless an HMO it's up to each occupant to decide on precautions. If you were desperate to provide something then a fire blanket in each kitchen would be of far more use than a 9 litre water extinguisher on the landing, but again you are not obliged to do this.

[Ashley Wood]

Is it not a requirement for the landlord to provide extinguishers within his responcible area?

[Tom Sutton]

Beware when trying to mathematically distribute extinguishers as you can come unstuck. The old days of 'x gallons water extinguisher for every z yards of floor' & ''a lbs of powder for b sq ft of liquid on fire' have gone as have when every water extinguisher was 13A.

I agree with what you say but the old rule of thumb was changed when fire rating of extinguisher was introduced and was commonly accepted to read "A13 fire rating for every 200 sq m of floor with a minimum of two extinguishers per floor." which gives the same result as floor area divided by 0.065. Consequently would this not be acceptable today?

[AnthonyB]

As a broad rule of thumb it cn do, but with the increasing ratings you can sometimes end up over providing this way, who would have thought you would routinely get 55B rated 2 kilo CO2 extinguishers or 27A rated 6 litre foams.

Of course it could be argued that ratings in general cover are irrelevant as they refer to professional trained users in a controlled environment and in most real life cases you wouldn't want your minimally trained staff attacking anything larger than a Waste bin or PC monitor and that in real life suitability for risk & travel distance is more important than an arbitrary rating in general terms - of course special hazards would be more reliant on ratings

With regard to requirements on the landlord remember the letter of the law:

"Where necessary (whether due to the features of the premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that—
(a) the premises are, to the extent that it is appropriate, equipped with appropriate fire-fighting equipment"


Note - 'Where necessary' & 'to safeguard safety'  If your flats common areas are virtually free of combustibles and as importantly realistic ignition sources why provide an extinguisher? For a fire in the flats it isn't safeguarding safety for the occupier to safely escape onto the landing, pick up an extinguisher & go back into the blazing flat.
It's not always necessary for PFE - in 99% of cases yes, but not all. Imagine every flat block in the UK having to have extinguishers (I'd love that contract though - not only the millions in initial supply, but regular recharging & replacement in the less salubrious flat blocks)

[Ken Taylor]

I'd say, Ashley, that the landlord would only need to provide FFEs in the common areas of purpose-built flats if the FRA evidently requires them. For example, common laundry rooms, leisure facilities, etc would probably need provision. As to the stairs and corridors, keeping them free of combustibles and ignition sources is the route to follow.

[kurnal]

I would have thought that oxy propane would be fine for heating up seized assemblies- after all its the standard kit for cutting up metals in scrap yards.

I go along with the risk assessment process eliminating  hazards as the first step considered. Been in a school today where they use oxyactylene to teach the students welding techniques. Is it essential? They say so. I'm not convinced but suppose its their decision. Recommended having it piped in from cylinders outdoors. Trouble is they have no money to fix the fire alarm, fire doors and emergency lighting, the leaking roof, or to deal with the known asbestos issues.