Author Topic: High Rise Flats  (Read 4517 times)

Offline SidM

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High Rise Flats
« on: July 09, 2008, 04:27:49 PM »
If access to fire fighters is not possible due to security gates in front of flat doors, is there anything that can be done about them under the Order.
"We are the unwilling,
Led by the unqualified,
Doing the unnecessary,
For the ungrateful.
-Living the dream!"

Offline jokar

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High Rise Flats
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 04:30:17 PM »
Yes,  Article 38 requires that items put in for firefighters under other enactments, the Building Regulations in this case, is maintained.

Offline SidM

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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 04:41:31 PM »
Are you saying that a fire door to a flat under Article 38 constitutes an "equipment or device for the protection of fire fighters?"
"We are the unwilling,
Led by the unqualified,
Doing the unnecessary,
For the ungrateful.
-Living the dream!"

Offline jokar

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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 05:03:21 PM »
Sorry, I misread your first post, I thought it was about access to the flats not a cover for the front door, and no the fire door is put in as part of the passive protection for residents under ADB.

Offline Big T

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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2008, 09:06:16 AM »
I would suggest they are fine. They are generally used for security in social housing and are installed usually by tennants.

Offline CivvyFSO

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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2008, 10:35:22 AM »
I don't think a normal security gate will be much of a problem to the crews. There were some very high security doors fitted to some council properties that were so secure that the FRS couldn't get in, and police teams couldn't force their way in either, but I suspect these are not quite that secure.

Offline Martin

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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2008, 10:59:10 AM »
I recollect London FB (LFCDA ? at that time) late 1990s did get involved with some of the London Borough Housing depts (Hackney and Tower Hamlets) and issued some sort of guide on the preferred types of outer security gates for residents front doors. It was something to do with the position of the hinges allowing the FB to lever them off reasonably quickly. Some of the gates were designed to provide no lever or jack purchase points and really would stop fire fighters gaining access to a flat or maisonette. It was mainly the residents of these sorts of properties who fitted them.

The bad news is I have recollections but no records.

messy

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High Rise Flats
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2008, 05:25:42 PM »
Form that start, much work has been done and the LFB have since (over a 2/3 year period) issued specialist forced entry equipment to stations.

The Press release in 2005

Date: 22 September 2005


Forced entry equipment

Funding for specialist forced entry equipment and the training of firefighters in its use was agreed following successful trials at four fire stations.

Nearly £215,000 will be spent over three years to 2007/2008 on the equipment and training with a further commitment of £61,388 each year from 2008/2009 onwards.

An increased level of security in domestic properties prompted a review of the methods and equipment used by firefighters to gain entry during incidents.

The money will enable crews to gain faster entry into properties on fire where people could be trapped inside. Results of the trials indicate that wider use of the new equipment could help the Authority reduce the number of deaths and injuries caused by fire and minimise damage to property.

During a six-month pilot at Bethnal Green, Feltham, Peckham and Kingsland fire stations three types of forced entry equipment - including a handheld battering ram and a hand operated hydraulic pump and spreading tool - were used by firefighters at 41 incidents.

Entry times to premises were significantly improved with this achieved in less than a minute in 28 out of the 41 occasions and in all but three occasions in under four minutes.

The average time for crews to gain entry using traditional methods is around three to five minutes.

Crews using the new equipment reported it enabled a quicker attack on fires and damage to properties was reduced. This meant that premises could be left secure, the time crews and appliances spent at incidents was reduced and disruption to victims of fire was minimised.

Because entry was more controlled, the new equipment also reduced the risk posed to firefighters from backdraft.

Eighteen stations will get the new equipment and training this year, 50 in 2006/07 and the final 44 stations in 2007/08.