Alarm resets

[Steven N]

I'd welcome some thoughts on the following scenario, as IO who deals with UWFS on a regular basis you do see some things that bring you up short but this one did leave me completely bewildered.
Gold cup day at cheltenham, i'm in the dawn run stand (purely for research purposes!). During the afternoon in a crowded bar the fire alarm started ringing, a call point had been broken. Out of a crowd of probably a 1000 not one person moved! After the alarm had been ringing for 20 minutes the only action I saw taken was someone  stuffing a racing programme behind the bell to stop the noise! When I asked a steward what they were going to do, he said that someone had accidently broken a call point & they were waiting for the fire service to come & reset it.
What is the point of having an alarm system if no one takes any notice of it including the stewards & why do people still think they need the FRS to tell them to reset when they know there is no fire?
Anyway got that off my chest now

[kurnal]

Yes this is absolutely typical. Experience has shown that only those who perceive themselves to be in danger from fire- visibility down to 10m in smoke, feeling the heat from the fire will move on their own volition. The rest will not move until a steward tells them to. This is why  good stewarding is so important. It sounds as though there were no effective emergency procedures or planning in place- if they knew it was a broken call point why didn,t they silence the alarm if they werent intending to evacuate.  

I hope the brigade investigates and  chucks the book at them. Theres too many irresponsible persons taking peoples money yet paying lip service to their responsibilities.

[Galeon]

Shut the bars , and stop the racing , two things that tend to make people notice , there is something else more importnant going on.

[Steven N]

Shut the bars , and stop the racing , two things that tend to make people notice , there is something else more importnant going on.

That would have certianly got peoples attention & i would have gone home richer too Galeon. The sheer indifference to the alarm sounding was almost comical. I still think though procedures should have been in place to investigate & reset without needing to await a fire officers say so. Just glad it wasn't a fire.

[Tom Sutton]

Portsmouth Polytechnic Psychology Department did some research for 45/1992: Human Behaviour in Fires commissioned by the ODPM and they found a similar situation.

People tend not react to the fire alarm until somebody makes move or they receive verbal instructions. They found people who are trained were usually the first to react, on one occasion it was a nurse who showed much concern but did not move for at least 5 minutes.

[AnthonyB]

I hope the brigade investigates and  chucks the book at them. Theres too many irresponsible persons taking peoples money yet paying lip service to their responsibilities.

I agree, but unless someone complains to the fire safety section it may not happen. Even if the fire brigade really had been called out, it would be operational crews turning out and there is no guarantee they will bring the matter to the attention of the FS department.

A word with the local authority may be appropriate if the site has a safety certificate.

Poor stewarding is still a problem as in lots of places they are still provided in the same way as for decades - low or unpaid staff (remember voluntary stewards drawn from supporters at football grounds) with minimal training and little interest in their job. Despite the problem being highlighted by Popplewell in some situations you still find poor staff, often where they are internally appointed instead of using an external event stewarding/security company.

[Wiz]

Portsmouth Polytechnic Psychology Department did some research for 45/1992: Human Behaviour in Fires commissioned by the ODPM and they found a similar situation.

People tend not react to the fire alarm until somebody makes move or they receive verbal instructions. They found people who are trained were usually the first to react, on one occasion it was a nurse who showed much concern but did not move for at least 5 minutes.

Following on from twsutton's post, I have also been told about research that indicates that people respond far better to verbal explanations and instructions than to warning tone signals. This seems to apply more to people in public areas rather than those in buildings who have been given repeated training in what to do when a warning tone signal is given. Evidently, only automatic voice alarms are used on fire alarm systems in Australia.

I cannot understand why voice message alarm sounders are not more porpular in this country. All the major manufacturers produce them.

Finally, why is there a warning tone system installed in a public building holding a 1000 people? Surely, this is exactly the type of building that should have a staff alarm and staff who are properly trained to ascertain the level of threat of the fire alarm warning and carry out an orderly evacuation procedure, as necessary?

[kurnal]

You are right about the effectiveness of voice alarms in public areas Dr Wiz.

I think relevant information that people can understand may be more effective than some of the pre-recorded alarm messages embedded in software though. Have seen it work very well in shopping centres but even so stewards and security staff remain essential because the public will not respond and stop what they are doing unless they personally percieve a hazard and case history shows that the people closest to the fire cannot escape being blocked in by the inertia of those who have not yet felt the heat.  

Where I have tried to use them have come across two main difficulties- concerns by the language police who wanted the announcement to be made in over 20 languages- and general audibilityof the message which is much more difficult to achieve than with a singler tone.

We cannot ever rely on stewards alone. There needs to be three steps here- Alert- Communicate- Respond. There must always be some means of attracting the crowds attention in a co-ordinated and controlled way, such as interrupting the entertainment. And this has to capture everyones attention at the same time and not interfere with the need for stewards to communicate. The stewards come into their own in the response phase, but are ineffective without steps 1 and 2.

[Mushy]

Its not the fire services job to reset the alarms, they can silence them but thats it, its up to the maintenace contractor to check the system and reset

[Midland Retty]

Where I have tried to use them have come across two main difficulties- concerns by the language police

Morning kurnal

Ive experienced similar problems as you describe!

Anyway back to the main thrust of the topic. Unfortunately all too often we see the sheep effect when it comes to evacuations

People are aware of an alarm ringing, some may hazzard a guess as to what the alarm means but don't react because they think they will look stupid if they do.

As soon as some one does make a move however the rest tend to follow, or alternatively along will come a shepherd (fire marshall if you prefer) to round them up!

Something like a stadium or large outdoor event effective marshalling is a must because people's minds are on other things

[Steven N]

Its not the fire services job to reset the alarms, they can silence them but thats it, its up to the maintenace contractor to check the system and reset

I couldn't agree more but in this case they never did anything at all, but they did appear to want the Fire Service to say they could reset, again why?
toatally right Midland minds were on other things but some enterprising soul put his racecard behind one of the sounder bells to diminish the noise!

[Tom Sutton]

There needs to be three steps here- Alert- Communicate- Respond. There must always be some means of attracting the crowds attention in a co-ordinated and controlled way, such as interrupting the entertainment. And this has to capture everyone’s attention at the same time and not interfere with the need for stewards to communicate. The stewards come into their own in the response phase, but are ineffective without steps 1 and 2.

After "Alert "I would include "Initiate" because of what retty says people do act like sheep and need to be prompted. It does show the need for trained stewards, fire marshals, staff or improved voice alarms and for the future intelligent fire evacuation systems.

[Big A]

. During the afternoon in a crowded bar the fire alarm started ringing, a call point had been broken. Out of a crowd of probably a 1000 not one person moved! After the alarm had been ringing for 20 minutes the only action I saw taken was someone  stuffing a racing programme behind the bell to stop the noise! When I asked a steward what they were going to do, he said that someone had accidently broken a call point & they were waiting for the fire service to come & reset it.
What is the point of having an alarm system if no one takes any notice of it including the stewards & why do people still think they need the FRS to tell them to reset when they know there is no fire?
Anyway got that off my chest now

If you observed that 'no one had moved after 20 minutes, presumably you were one of them.

[Steven N]

Good point Big A I did subtly move my position outside on to the steps then gave up after a while when no one else joined me.  
I certianly wasn't going to try & evacuate everyone in an off duty capacity! Like most people Im not over fond of being told to eff off & stop being so bloody silly.