Fire detection systems in a common area of converted house to flats

[fzzbucks]

i've just completed the LFB risk assesment course and have been approached to conduct some risk assesments on various houses which have been converted to flats. As some of these properties are 3 storey, being ground, 1st & 2nd floor, i've read the sleeping accomodation booklet and looked at various websites regarding the Grade A LD2 system which it recommends, i'm aware that if it's only a 2 storey property emergency lights and smoke alarms would suffice, my question is would i need to demand a Grade A LD2 system to be fitted and then who would check the panel and do the relevant zone tests etc? as these are all private residents i feel this would be inappropriate to put this upon one of these.

[jokar]

Have a look at table 1 in BS 5839 part 6 and see what it recommends, the info in the CLG Guide is incorrect in places about fire alarm system particularly Part 6 systems.  As an RA you need only to suggest or recommend something , it is down to the RP to make decisions.  

Do you need a system in the communal areas?  If the evacuation policy is defend in place and it is a 60 minute structure then no alarm in these areas ould be required.  However, if it is only 30 minutes and is a proper HMO then you may need a mixed system to Part 6.

[Clevelandfire]

i've just completed the LFB risk assesment course and have been approached to conduct some risk assesments on various houses which have been converted to flats. As some of these properties are 3 storey, being ground, 1st & 2nd floor, i've read the sleeping accomodation booklet and looked at various websites regarding the Grade A LD2 system which it recommends, i'm aware that if it's only a 2 storey property emergency lights and smoke alarms would suffice, my question is would i need to demand a Grade A LD2 system to be fitted and then who would check the panel and do the relevant zone tests etc? as these are all private residents i feel this would be inappropriate to put this upon one of these.

LD2 Grade A incorporates an alarm panel which is more there for brigade use in helping fire crews to pin point location of fire.

Theory is that it would take longer to search each room of a three storey property than it would a two storey

Bit tenuous I think but then as my boss always tells me Im not paid to think

[David Rooney]

An odd thought or two.....

1.     If these are self contained flats, without a panel how would you identify the origin of an alarm condition... particularly if the resident is away or already overcome by smoke?

2.     Have you (or perhaps the RP) thought about the evacuation strategy, will it be one out all out every time someone burns the toast?


The RP needs to decide on the appropriate strategy first, then decide on the type of system that will suit the strategy.

[Clevelandfire]

An odd thought or two.....

1.     If these are self contained flats, without a panel how would you identify the origin of an alarm condition... particularly if the resident is away or already overcome by smoke?

2.     Have you (or perhaps the RP) thought about the evacuation strategy, will it be one out all out every time someone burns the toast?


The RP needs to decide on the appropriate strategy first, then decide on the type of system that will suit the strategy.

Good points can't argue with that at all

[CivvyFSO]

1.     If these are self contained flats, without a panel how would you identify the origin of an alarm condition... particularly if the resident is away or already overcome by smoke?

The flames can often give it away.

[David Rooney]

hmmmmm smouldering mattresses spring to mind .......... !!!!!

[fzzbucks]

My only question with regards to your replies is that as these flats are private leaseholds, would they not come under the category as private dwelling, the same as a house i.e what you do behind your front door is your own business??, and that just the common area comes under the fire risk assessment (there are no shared kithchens/lounges etc)

[kurnal]

What is the standard of compartmentation in the building? Do you have one hour fire resisting floors and walls between each unit? It is the compartmentation and layout that will determine the extent of the fire detection system.

The flats are domestic premises but if the design and layout of the building are insufficient to support a stay put evacuation strategy then the detectors within each domestic area may be crucial to the safety of other relevant persons in the building.