CFOA guidance on extinguishers for auditors

[Clevelandfire]

Going slightly off topic, last Christmas Day, I visited a residential hospital where a relative is a long term patient.  I had noticed as I had entered that there were lit candles on the decorated table which was awaiting the turkey and trimmings.  While I was in my relatives room, the firm alarm sounded and people started to shout.  I ran out to discover that the table was ablaze and the flames were close to setting the curtains on fire.  I ran to the nearest fire point, grabbed a 6 litre AFFF and luckily was able to extinguish the fire despite having problems getting the bent pin out!  The point I am making is that most of the residents were old and wheelchair bound.  It would have been difficult to evacuate them safely if the fire had spread.  I would argue that first aid FFE should be provided at residental locations.

No i would say the other fire precautions were not up to scratch. In the example you give it sounds that fire safety management and staff training were all over the place. As practically everyone agreed on these forums if you need to rely on fire extinguishers for escape something has gone badly wrong.

[Chris Houston]

.......If you are too shortsighted to realise......

I realise that this is an emotive issue that we all have strong feelings about, nonetheless, I will not tollerate personal abuse in the form of name calling.  Call me or anyone else on the forum names again and your next ban from FireNet won't be temporary.

not many i hear chris houston cry

Don't put words in my mouth.  I find your suggestion grossly offensive.

If you can't debate this issue with respect for myself or the other posters on this forum, then FireNet isn't the place for you.

[Clevelandfire]

The refernece to "if your too shortsited to realise" was not aimed at you Chris
I did direct the issue of statistics at you however as I believe you contested the ammount of people who actually put fires out without intervention of the fire service. I think it was a legitimate question though I realise it was not worded in the most friendly of terms and I apologise. I hacve to say you hear worse on BBC Question time. Name callingwas never my intention and neither was it in that tone, but i still feel the untrained are being shortsighted and putting themselves at more risk than they realise trying to fight fire and that whilst as you point out corrdectly with the statistics you quoted just because people will try and hava a go doesnt make it right. This is why fire brigades are doing HFSC to educate peoples of danger, and general fire safety in the home. This is why fire officers enforce the law by saying that if any employees are expected to use them then they should be trained. To suggest its someones legal right to fight fire is something i find absolutely innappropriate.

[Chris Houston]

To suggest its someones legal right to fight fire is something i find absolutely innappropriate.

What I said, in the context of employees was:

Do they not have a legal right to fire fighting aparatus?

Noting:

13. —(1) Where necessary (whether due to the features of the premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that—



(a) the premises are, to the extent that it is appropriate, equipped with appropriate fire-fighting equipment .....

I fail to see why you think I've said something "inappropriate".

[Psuedonym]

My little input on this never ending story is once again as follows: Why are high street companies, the internet etc allowed to sell fire fighting equipment to Joe Bloggs with no training, experience or any idea of what he is buying?
When was the last time anyone on this board sold/advised DP for domestic purposes? Why on Earth would you? Are they not a hazard in themselves? Are there not better/safer alternatives?
Just pop into your local B & X and ask the sales guy on the safe use of the extinguisher they would like to sell you.

The "H & S Police" should be working from grass roots up. One day some hero will have a bash with his 1KG powder bought in good faith from B & X on his chip pan at 2 feet away and wake up wondering why he is looking up at a hostpital ceiling with his house in ashes.

[Psuedonym]

I quote from the document above:

"Of the 2,173 incidents recorded in the survey, in 80% of cases (1,737) the portable
equipment successfully extinguished the fire and in 75% (1,637) of those cases, the
fire brigade was not required to attend."

Naturally the figures will be higher, as many small incidents will be unreported upon.

Chris, I'm sure these figures originated from a FETA publication a couple of years ago. I do have a copy somewhere and will fill you in when I can dig it out. Nim or The Reiver may have it to hand though.

[Chris Houston]

I quoted from the link above my actual post.

[Chris Houston]

Are there not better/safer alternatives?

None spring to mind.  What would you suggest?

[Clevelandfire]

To suggest its someones legal right to fight fire is something i find absolutely innappropriate.

What I said, in the context of employees was:

Do they not have a legal right to fire fighting aparatus?

Noting:

13. —(1) Where necessary (whether due to the features of the premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that—



(a) the premises are, to the extent that it is appropriate, equipped with appropriate fire-fighting equipment .....

I fail to see why you think I've said something "inappropriate".

Yes the RRO does say that Chris but it also goes on to say where provided staff should be trained on their use

So not sure where you are coming from

[Chris Houston]

So could the solution be to provide the extinguishers and train the staff?

[Clevelandfire]

But yes Chris Id have absoultely no problem with that at all. Thats how it should be. That what the law states.
The argument all along has been untrained people such as residents of say a sheltered home fighting fire.
Trained staff would not be an issue (should the training be proper - but thats a totally separate argument)

[Davo]

But no its ok lets let little old Ida fight fire. Im sure she will be ok. Lets let untrained staff use extinguishers because surely they have a legal right... a human right...its ok if they die trying at least tits their human right.

Clevelandfire

Were you watching a film when you wrote the post?
It obviously made an impression!



davo

[Midland Retty]

If you are pointing out what I think you are pointing out Davo then I would defend Clevelandfire by saying he is simply staying "ABREAST" of the debate.

He is delving headlong into the BUSSOM of fire safety in search of the correct answer to the original question posed.

He is hammering his point home, he realises its boom or BUST time for his argument to be taken seriously by the firenet masses.

His chest, erm sorry quest, for superior fire safety knowledge knows no bounds and he should be applauded for that.

....You're going to tell me you dont know what Im talking about now aren't you Davo!

[Davo]

Retty

Nah, I'm just worried for clevelandfire, I think he's in the Last Chance saloon with Chris!

davo

[Chris Houston]

OK, I think all parties have made their points clear, I think this debate has reached it's natural end.

I'm closing the topic before Cleaveland does another one of his 3am posts and falls through the thin ice he's on (just joking mate).