Building Regulations Lift Protection

[stevew]

I would welcome comments on the level of lift protection recommended in ADB 1 6.42.   The use of the premises in question is a proposed nursing home.   The building will be designed for progresive horizontal evacuation.

Prior to the B Regs 2000 edition lifts did not have to be lobbied at every storey.  The proposed lifts will in themselves provide  one hour fire protection including smoke stopping.   In my opinion, on this occassion, providing lift lobbies  does not improve the level of safety.   Where does prescriptive end and risk assessment start.  

Ironic that risk assessment is mentioned in the ADB Page 12 under Analysis of the problem.   I've yet to find a LA Building Inspector or Fire Officer consider a RA approach to the matter.

I would welcome comments and/or experiences on this matter

Stevew

[Peter Wilkinson]

If PHE is proposed for the occupants of this building, is ADB the appropriate guidance document?  Perhaps you should refer to Firecode.

[Guest]

Is is possible for lift landing doors to resist the passage of smoke?

[wee brian]

No - thats why ADB asks for a lobby - they did a risk assessment!

Of course if there is something different about your building or you have magic lift doors then you could do without. Its not the BCOs fault that most designers are not able to put a decent argument together.

[Guest]

Firstly the lifts will be of the 'magic' type

Regarding your comments  wee brian on ADB recommending lift lobbies on the basis of risk assessment.  What happened between the introduction of the first and second edition of ADB that influenced a change in direction.  If anyone knows please enlighten me.

We have to place some blame at the door of the BCO who in my experience are not prepared to apply a risk based approach to a situation.  I will leave others to consider the reasons why.

[John Webb]

It is several years since I had contact with those producing Building Regulations, before they moved to the ODPM. I would suggest you either go to the ODPM website:
www.odpm.gov.uk
or ring them and ask why the changes were made and if your brand of lift would be acceptable to them. There's nothing like going to the originators of the paperwork - the lower ranks in local BC offices have to take note of what ODPM people say. Who else do you appeal to when the local BCO says 'No'?

I suspect that there have been cases between 1992 (when the previous major version of AD B was published) and the 2000 edition when smoke and fire spread between floors of buildings via unlobbied lift shafts. Unfortunately I do not recall reading about any such incidents, but searches of various journals may reveal something.

[wee brian]

There have been lots of minor incidents where smoke has spread via lift shafts. No major incidents involving casualties though.

The change also came about because a design trend for lifts to be installed that delivered directly into the accomodation in a building rather than being integral to a stair shaft.

I guess the question is do you wait until you have a big pile of body bags before you adress a risk that has been identified.

[Ken Taylor]

I suppose you are in a more defensible position to quote the AD than going for risk assessment and taking the personal responsibility that goes with it. We  have found Approved Inspectors generally more open to suggestion than BCOs.

[wee brian]

If its a new building then you would expect to iether follow ADB or use an alternative approach - ie magic lift doors (see above)

If its an exisitng building and the exisitng lifts don't have a lobby you would need to consider what the impact may be. In this case you can look at what is actually done in the building what the fire load and ignition risks are and who it may effect.

[Ken Taylor]

- and, presumably, whether the lobby also serves a stairway, whether it's part of the evacuation strategy or is required to provide a refuge.