Author Topic: Newbie guide  (Read 9942 times)

Offline kwc

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« on: June 12, 2008, 10:00:23 PM »
Hi All,
This is my first post here and i have a question.

I work as a service engineer for a small company who Mainly install intruder alarms,CCTV,Door access and also fire alarms.

The owner of the company does all the sales,design and specs for the fire alarms.
We have install engineers who install the system as per the spec giving be the Boss.
My Role some times invovles handing over the fire alarm to a new customer but i mainly attend to do routine service calls and faults.

I would like to know what is the best training/guides or standards I need to know to help with me role.

A basic guide to start EG, BS Guide and what i would be expected to know and do.

If there is a good training route i could take then let me know.

I don't want to just pick it up as i go because i want to do my job right.

Cheers
Kev

Chris Houston

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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 10:37:08 PM »
You should know British Standard 5839 for fire alarm stuff.

Offline kwc

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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2008, 11:53:12 PM »
Hi Chris,
I know that i should know.
My back ground is in the intruder side and this is why iam asking as i don't want to be "a cowboy".
My company does the fire alarms and its part of my job to work on them.

I feel my company does a great job on the intruder side of things and even though do install fire alarms to a good standard i my self need some back ground.

Cheers
Kev

Clevelandfire

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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 12:34:41 AM »
Hi Kev.Do yourself a big favour. Walk into your bosses office and ask him to stick you on a pukka BS5839 course. Im not being funny with you. I think its great you recognise you need more training. But a word of warning fire authorities are now going after installers and engineers who falsely or unwittingly claim to be competent. They can do so under the Fire Safety Order.For my money and it is just my opinion unless you can service or maintain a fire alarm system to a recognised standard you really leave yourself open to problems, particularly like some engineers who fill out genuine pukka installation commissioning and maintenance certs to say theyve tested a system to 5839 or other recognised standard and yet have no knowedge of it or are not fully competent. Im sure you are a good engineer but these days you need to prove competency to cover your backside.

Offline kurnal

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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 08:29:05 AM »
Yes BS5839 is the essential element.  And EN54.

If you cant get on a course you may find some of the alarm companies design guides useful- ADT do a good one and the Gent Catalogue is a wealth of information - but this approach is a no substitution for to a training course.

Peter Burry did a brilliant book on fire detection and alarm systems isbn 0947665110 well worth a read but be warned its not been updated to the 2002 version of BS5839.

Offline Wiz

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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 09:41:55 AM »
kwc, despite what some people would have you believe, designing, installing and maintaining fire alarm systems is not rocket science!

Obviously, you can only be considered as competent when you have enough knowledge and experience, and the correct tools to use your knowledge and experience.

Experience can only come with 'time on the job'.

Knowledge is readily available if you put the effort in to find it.

To get the required knowledge you should:

1) Obtain as much free literature as possible from equipment manufacturers. Much of this is now available on their websites. You should initially read those items that are general guides to equipment operation. Be prepared for some confusing information and errors in some of this literature but reading as many as possible from different sources will eventually guide you in the right direction. Subsequently read the equipment for specific equipment types to get an understanding of what it can do and where you might use it.

2) Search the internet for information on fire alarm systems. Also search for forums relating to fire alarms and read as many posts as possible. (you are obviously doing this already!) This will give you a flavour of the current terminology and the typical questions and answers to problems that people in the industry are experiencing.

3) Learn BS5839 by heart. This is probably the most important element of proving competence this days. As well as having a copy of the BS and reading it, also buy Colin Todd's guide to it (ISBN 0 86213 129 4). This will give you a bit of the background to how the standard has evolved and the thinking behind it. (I particularly enjoyed the section that explains why BS recommends installing a single sounder adjacent to the fire panel on one circuit and all other sounders in the premises on the other sounder circuit ).

4) To 'prove' your understanding of BS take the various BFPSA course modules. Unfortunately you can't just do the tests but you have to take their training as well, so even if you know what they are talking about it you have to sit through it just to answer the questions that will give you a certificate. However having the BFPSA module certificates is a good sign of competence

5) Finally many of the people who can supply your comapny with their fire alarm equipment have knowledge and experience that they will be willing to share with you for 'free' if you buy equipment from them. You are unlikly to find this knowledge at a general electrical wholesaler but you will obviously find it at equipment manufacturers (if you can buy direct) or from the specialist safety and security equipment wholesalers. never be afraid to ask a question.

Good luck in your quest for knowledge of fire aalrm systems and well done for recognising that you may have been lacking it!

Offline wozzer38

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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 10:05:33 AM »
Hi
Visit the Gardiner Security site. They are promoting a fire training road map which will take you all the way through Fire System Design training supported by the FIA and Manufacturers training too. This can give you a complete grounding in Fire detection and also lead to the SP203 accreditation. So well worth looking into.

www.adi-gardiner.com
 Hope this helps. Incidentally I have done most of this training but it is a long process and will also cost money but the way the industry is going its going to be worth the investment.

Offline Mike Buckley

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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 12:12:34 PM »
The FPA also has a series of courses on fire alarm and detection systems built on a modular basis. Try www.thefpa.co.uk or 0208 884 4050.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline wozzer38

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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 02:18:18 PM »
direct link to Gardiner training in case you caught in all the other gumph on there

http://www.gardinersecurity.co.uk/training.asp

Offline kwc

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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 05:20:32 PM »
Hi All,

Thanks for all this great info.
I have the book by C.Todd and iam reading it now.

My main concern is that I want to make sure Iam doing my checks right.
I don't decide on the location of equipment or type etc but may well be asked to handover a system.

I will look into the above info giving and hopfully get a good start.
I understand that its vital that its done right and this is why Im here for advice.

I will look into the cost of the courses as i will problaby pay for them myself.

Even a basic guide will help such as "A call point must be sited at a height of... and must use this detector there" etc.

Thanks again
Kev

Clevelandfire

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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 06:41:57 PM »
Quote from: kwc
Hi All,

Thanks for all this great info.
I have the book by C.Todd and iam reading it now.

My main concern is that I want to make sure Iam doing my checks right.
I don't decide on the location of equipment or type etc but may well be asked to handover a system.

I will look into the above info giving and hopfully get a good start.
I understand that its vital that its done right and this is why Im here for advice.

I will look into the cost of the courses as i will problaby pay for them myself.

Even a basic guide will help such as "A call point must be sited at a height of... and must use this detector there" etc.

Thanks again
Kev
I applaud your enthusiasm and desire to learn more. Its very refreshing these days. Try ad go on as many related courses as you can the more you casn do on the installtion side will only make you ultimately more employable. Designing such systems is also a good career path.

All the best

BS 5839 will tell you those things (such as where detectors should be sited) ill try and email you a copy on monday

Offline kwc

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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 11:08:36 PM »
Hi Clevelandfire,
Thanks for that, Just noticed you are from Gateshead.
Iam based in Newcastle area as well.

Reading my book is a bit heavy on the numbers, EG 5839 part this part that for some one who is starting.
Iam keen and just want to do what i do right.
Kev