Fire Exits

[clio222]

Your thoughts and comments please. Single storey commercial premises occupying 3 differrent Tenants total  people in premises approx 15, egress is from the main entrance/exit and back door entrance/exit, both of which at present are unlocked during ocupancy, locking mechanisim a single key.When one Tenant finishes they lock the door for security at night stating that all other occupants have a key, other occupants want the doors locked during the day for security purposes stating that all occupants have a key.

I have stated that both scenarios are unacceptable as there is the potential for a fire to occur and occupants are trapped even if they are supplied with a key ( Can`t locate key ).

I have suggest changing locks to thumb turns to ensure easy and rapid egress from the building without the use of any keys.All occupants are fit and well with no disabilities  & would be able to operate thumb turn.

Landlord won`t change locks sorry not true they are very, very, very very very reluctant to change locks stating that all occupants heve been supplied with a key, my question is this is it acceptable to install a BGU with a key inside to be used in an emergency positioned close to the exits or is this an old fashion unacceptable method or would it be deemed acceptable.

Although not my first choice is there room for compromise.

Any comments as always appreciated

[Big T]

I would say no to the break glass unit. Possibility of BGU being broken, key being used and not replaced.

I would suggest that the tennants risk assessment as well as the lanlords would highlight this issue and for the sake of a hundred or so quid I would definately push to get this changed. You aren't asking for the world, a thunb turn is most certainly a reasonable solution

[Chris Houston]

My personal opinoin is that a key operated lock is unacceptable.  Too many scenarios where someone could be trapped.  Did they give you a key when you did your survey?

[The Colonel]

Keys in boxes went out years ago, I alawys suggest an alternate approved type of emergency fastening such as a thumb turn.

[Psuedonym]

What a poor landlord this is. Obviously no qualms about "his" tenants' (therefore income if looked at from that point of view) health and safety. Supplying a key is not enough nor an acceptable answer to a means of escape for many reasons.
IMO a BGU is not an issue if tenants can keep an eye on it if there are safety issues with the unit but a thumb turn or a push bar system would be a better option.
The Landlord is treading water for costs' sake. Not a good idea. Give him a copy of the FRSO for some bedtime reading.

[Mike Buckley]

As far as I can see the RRO applies. The landlord is responsible for the common areas and the means of escape from them. As above the key solution is not acceptable the only way is panic bolts or a thumb turn. If I was an inspecting officer I would be looking for panic bolts but would accept (grumbling a bit) thumb turn if they were in situ.

[Midland Retty]

Disadvantages with key locks are as follows:-

Keys can go missing, they can break in the lock, employees are issued with their own copy of the key then forget to bring it into work with them - the list goes on and on.

Key operated locks are totally unacceptable, and the landlord should change them for something more suitable.

[SidM]

I would have no problems with a break glass unit housing a key.  Being reasonable practicable and having had a nice lunch I would argue and say, numbers are low, all occupants are ambulant so why not.

[CivvyFSO]

Article 14(2)(f):
emergency doors must not be so locked or fastened that they cannot be easily and immediately opened by any person who may require to use them in an emergency;

Quite straight forward, quite easy to enforce.

IMO, Quite easily solved by a simple yale lock if all the staff can operate it.

[Galeon]

Cant wait for this Landlord to be put in the scenario of no escape , soon change his mind ,methinks

[AnthonyB]

You can buy escape deadlock sets from Wickes or B&Q for about £12, it's not breaking the bank & the landlord is being unreasonably, lazy & penny pinching.

Keys in boxes used to be the acceptable norm, but were shown to be flawed at Summerland and other major fires (Were also at the Rose & Crown and Woolworths)

[CivvyFSO]

Don't forget you also have the horror movie syndrome, where you need to get a key in the door quick it becomes almost impossible, and you invariably drop it. The key hitting the floor and sliding under the door to the other side is also guaranteed.

Maybe I watch too many films.

[Midland Retty]

Don't forget you also have the horror movie syndrome, where you need to get a key in the door quick it becomes almost impossible, and you invariably drop it. The key hitting the floor and sliding under the door to the other side is also guaranteed.

Maybe I watch too many films.

Actually no CivvyFSO, a colleague of mine attended a post fire inspection some years back where that exactly happened. Alright I accept its not an everyday occurence but just goes to show.

[Tom Sutton]

I remember doing an inspection in a museum and found a key in a glass box, the key covered with tin foil to prevent persons photographing it and making a duplicate. I insisted the key be removed and the door opened but the lock had been changed and the key was for the old lock.

[clio222]

Thank you all for your comments as always much appreciated