Author Topic: DDA- Compliant  (Read 7399 times)

Offline jon b

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
DDA- Compliant
« on: August 15, 2008, 09:16:30 AM »
hi i am quoting for a L2 system in a 40 bedroom hotel i was just wondering if i have to install sounder strobe units in all the bedrooms to comply with DDA can anybody help

Offline Wiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1591
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 09:35:49 AM »
jonb.

The DDA is open to wide interpretation.

In my opinion a hotel that had visual fire alarm warning devices in all public areas and also some bedrooms that were made available for customers with hearing disabilities it would meet the recommendations of the Act.

There are dozens of other previous posts on this forum covering this subject. Also try a search of these for other opinions.

Offline Big_Fella

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 09:49:59 AM »
I would also tend to agree with Wiz.

When quoting for systems in complience with DDA I would highlight exactly in the quote how you intend to cover this.

Within the hotel bedrooms you may want to offer a vibrating pillow alarm as an option to wake the person should they be sleeping.
** Knowledge is power, I'm still working on both **

Offline Galeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 556
  • Dont ask me on here for advice , come down the Pub
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 11:40:56 AM »
As usual in the install game , its always the bottom line , so I would quote the job without DDA compliance in the main quote . However I would then show a separate indicative cost on an individual sounder strobe.
Do not price yourself out the game by giving to much information , you need to be correct in what you say , but big totals at the end of a quotation is what people tend to look at.
If you didn't do the design on this job , its down to the designer to quantify the equipment.
What you need to remember that in a perfect world it will be 'eggs for eggs' .
Do not over offer information if you haven't been asked to do so , don't take me up wrong in this matter , if the client wants a system , get a specification completed and then obtain prices , it is always apparent that they are told to get 3 prices , and they are not like for like .
You have therefore made them aware that you are offering compliance within  the system , you are not in a position to know what they are going to do with DDA , they might decide on 10% of the rooms will have beacons , and let these on that basis , you will be way out on your quote otherwise. Bearing in mind if there is no spec , you are deciding risk assessment on this matter , you should be paid for it.

Just a reminder if you are going analogue , think about the detection in bedrooms , dont get a system that you cannot turn of the pulsing led of the detector , as I have seen more than 1 system ripped out because this keeps people awake at night , so don't snooker yourself , you have probably thought of that already , but just in case.
Its time to make a counter attack !

Graeme

  • Guest
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2008, 04:42:01 PM »
Quote from: Wiz
jonb.

The DDA is open to wide interpretation.

In my opinion a hotel that had visual fire alarm warning devices in all public areas and also some bedrooms that were made available for customers with hearing disabilities it would meet the recommendations of the Act.

There are dozens of other previous posts on this forum covering this subject. Also try a search of these for other opinions.
you could argue Wiz that this id discrimination allocating certain rooms with vibrating pillows etc as the person with hearing problems may want another room else where.

The best thing for the DDA in hotels is the wire free vibrating pillow and beacon. This can be kept at the reception desk and handed out when required.It does away with the need to allocate rooms.

you will obviously have to make sure that you have sounders in every room though to operate the wire free device and also to give you 75Dba at bed head.

Offline Wiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1591
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2008, 05:13:03 PM »
Quote from: Graeme
Quote from: Wiz
jonb.

The DDA is open to wide interpretation.

In my opinion a hotel that had visual fire alarm warning devices in all public areas and also some bedrooms that were made available for customers with hearing disabilities it would meet the recommendations of the Act.

There are dozens of other previous posts on this forum covering this subject. Also try a search of these for other opinions.
you could argue Wiz that this id discrimination allocating certain rooms with vibrating pillows etc as the person with hearing problems may want another room else where.

The best thing for the DDA in hotels is the wire free vibrating pillow and beacon. This can be kept at the reception desk and handed out when required.It does away with the need to allocate rooms.

you will obviously have to make sure that you have sounders in every room though to operate the wire free device and also to give you 75Dba at bed head.
Graeme, which version of vibrating pillow alarm are you suggesting?

Does your suggested version have any sort of monitoring integrity against any of the type of failures that might stop it's operation in an emergency?

Offline Thomas Brookes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2008, 07:41:03 PM »
Recently seen a quote for a alarm for some student accomadation, from a certain company A*T. They insisted that to comply with DDA all bedrooms ensuites and bath rooms must have sounder strobes.
They did not get the job as the other three companies quoting did not quote for strobes through out.
I refuse to have a battle of wittts with an unarmed person.

Chris Houston

  • Guest
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2008, 08:03:51 PM »
I have only a working knowledge of DDA.  If I had a hotel, I would estimate the number maximum number of people likley to have hearing difficulties present at one time..  I would then furnish this many rooms with strobes on the ground floor area.  I think this sounds reasonable and unless someone then could convince me that was not enough, I would stick to that concept.

Graeme

  • Guest
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2008, 07:29:21 AM »
here you go wiz

http://www.firecoltd.com/Deafgard.asp

it ensure DDA complaince.  As for monitoring i would say no as in the fire alarm is would not be aware of any fault but it has a fault but it has a dual battery system.

Offline Wiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1591
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2008, 01:36:10 PM »
Quote from: Graeme
here you go wiz

http://www.firecoltd.com/Deafgard.asp

it ensure DDA complaince.  As for monitoring i would say no as in the fire alarm is would not be aware of any fault but it has a fault but it has a dual battery system.
Graeme, thanks for this. I was aware of the Deafgard product and that was why I asked the question about fault integrity.

I have heard anecdotal evidence that it also triggers on heavy snoring :)

There is the obvious risk that it would not work, due to some internal fault (I don't believe there is any recognised standard the manufacturers can design it to meet) or that on some occasion the acoustic signal did not get through to it for some reason.
 
I agree with you that it appears to be a product that could offer much potential flexibility for hotel owners. However I would be worried that if I was offering it as the sole solution to meet the DDA obligations and it didn't work in an emergency, questions could be asked as to it's suitability for use.

However I know that if I put a beacon specifically manufactured for use in fire alarm systems in the bedroom and physically connected to a monitored wired circuit then all of that would be compliant to BS5839 Part 1 and obviously for use for hearing impaired persons.

Thereofore I think that, as a considerate hotel owner, I would have dedicated bedrooms for hearing impaired guests with beacons installed, and also offer the Deafgard as an additional option for those hearing impaired guests using those rooms who felt they wouldn't be woken from sleep by a flashing beacon.

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2008, 01:57:40 PM »
Dr Wiz
Have you found any evidence on the likllihood  that a flashing beacon will wake someone up? I believe there has been some research into this and it was found that extremely high lighting levels are necessary to wake someone,  and that whilst a flashing beacon is of use to a lone deaf person when awake it is not effective to rouse someone from sleep.

We could ask matron to conduct some experiments. You supply the deafguard I will provide the strobe.

I am sure Mrs K would be happy to investigate the snoring issue whilst I would be happy to experiment flashing my strobe at matron.

Offline Wiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1591
DDA- Compliant
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2008, 02:57:04 PM »
Prof K !!!!!,
 
I was only just talking about you on another post on this forum and then I immediately find this post from you!

You never let me down!

I had thought about adding a :) after the last sentence of my last post on this subject but didn't on the basis that I hoped the question you asked would be asked by someone! (if they were paying attention)

The evidence you expound about needing extremely high lighting levels being necessary to wake someone is surely based on the well-documented research carried out by Police Officers entering a drug dealer's home at 4 a.m. and shining a torch in the sleeping druggies face. They found that bashing the torch around the sleepers head woke them much quicker than the light beam from a torch!

I have no evidence whatsoever to support my comment and it is hard to believe that a small flashing light could wake up a sleeping hearing impaired person. So why do we generally put strobes in hotel bedrooms if people can't see them when asleep?

Actually, my deaf and dumb uncle, Colin, maintains that he is often woken when the numbers change on his LED digital clock radio. He suggests that when you lose one sense others are enhanced. I'm not sure I believe him but he does always look very tired to me!

In all events it's a subject that invites debate.

p.s. A bit of advice. Matron enjoys a strobe with a regular pulse. A frequency of 1Hz is ideal for her enjoyment of the process. She tells me that, in her younger days, she was once strobed at an 8Hz frequency and so it all just fizzled out after less than a minute!

p.p.s. The banter police may move this post to a new location :)