Fire service and the TA

[Salty]

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone has any idea whether the fire service would support someone in the TA going on operational deployments. I'm leaving the marines soon and looking at becoming a reservist for the Forces which would mean potential deployments to Afghanistan. I'm also very keen to join the fire service as either a wholetime or retained firefighter. If I was to deploy does anyone know how this would work? For example: Would I be required to leave the fire service and re-join when I got back etc?

Any information would be hugely helpful.

Thanks

Tom

[nearlythere]

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone has any idea whether the fire service would support someone in the TA going on operational deployments. I'm leaving the marines soon and looking at becoming a reservist for the Forces which would mean potential deployments to Afghanistan. I'm also very keen to join the fire service as either a wholetime or retained firefighter. If I was to deploy does anyone know how this would work? For example: Would I be required to leave the fire service and re-join when I got back etc?

Any information would be hugely helpful.

Thanks

Tom

It would depend very much on the Service. I would be inclined to concentrate in getting in first and then worry about your TA bit after.

[Tom Sutton]

Salty you should be asking if the TA will allow you to become a Ff check out the QR's.

Employment during Leave or Off Duty Hours. J5.078.

g. Permission must not be given for individuals to undertake employment, whether temporary or part
time, in any of the following fields:

(1) As a retained fireman.
(2) As a member of any constabulary including MOD and Railway Police.
(3) As a security guard in any form (this includes acting as `bouncers' in night-clubs, discotheques
or public houses).
(4) As an insurance agent, or any form of financial agent, except that, with the prior permission of
the commanding officer, Service personnel may accept the position of agent where this
acceptance does not involve selling insurance or giving advice on insurance or financial matters,
but is intended solely to satisfy a professional requirement to enable them during the ensuing 2
years to take up employment in this field on leaving the Service.

This may only apply to Regulars but its worth checking it out.

[Salty]

Thanks. I will check that out but I'm pretty sure it applies to regulars only. Definately worth looking into though.

If anyone elso can offer any information then I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again

[xan]

A few points,some may be out of date as it is a few years since I left HMF:
1)Joining the Fire Service used to put you at the bottom of the list should the armed forces wish to 'recall' you (assuming that you will still be liable to be put on the 'reserve' list).
2)The particular Fire Service will have its own rules on secondary(T.A.) employment.
Currently in my county there are a number of Armed forces personnel employed as RDS-so not sure how/if QR's are being applied.

[JC100]

Currently in my county there are a number of Armed forces personnel employed as RDS-so not sure how/if QR's are being applied.

When i served in the RAF as a firefighter, we were the only trade (that i was aware of) that were given permission to join the fire brigade as retained. Whether or not this was the standard throughout the service, this was the way it worked on my station.

[Salty]

Thanks again for the information you've given me. I've recently read a short article by Vij Randeniya OBE, the Deputy Chief Fire Officer at West Midlands Fire Service. He mentions 6 employees of West Midlands Fire Service being members of the Territorial Army and several seeing active service in Iraq. He also talks about the Brigades support of reservists and that they have changed their procedures to reflect this.
Is there anyone on here who knows anything about this change in procedures or anything about the 6 employees he mentions? I'm aware that they may not be in an operational role with the fire service and would be keen to find out.

[Mr. P]

Have spoken with an army recruitment office... simply put as I understood...
A soldier can also work for another employer but permission must be sought from his CO.  There is a list of approved and dis-approved jobs, i.e. canvassing/selling door to door is a no-no, as is anything which may bring the service into disripute. Driving is ok as long as long as the persons full time role is not affected.  2ndry employment is normally undertaken during periods of their holiday, but other longer term work is often supported, depending individuals role & responsibilities etc.
TA is whole time for some, but volutary for most as a second career or 2nd employment, and as such the main employer must give consent to release the person for training and deployments as they are agreed between the parties.
So it seems we have a mixed bag.  I have known wholetime FFs also as RT, and others who were not allowed.  The various interested parties must have to agree it would appear, in each case by case.

[afterburner]

Salty, here's a long 'I don't know' reply, but with some historical background

long long ago (when we were concerned with nuclear attack) the fire service had a wartime mobilsation role (often referred to as a 'time of national crisis') where the surviving fire crews would return to fight the fires caused by a nuclear exchange. Firemen (this pre-dates firefighters) could not be military reservists as this would be direct confilct on any mobilisation (by mobilising for one he would automatically be absent from the other).

This situation was not rescinded as the threat of nuclear attack went away. Indeed I recall a recruit who had been a commisioned officer in a tank regiment having to write to the Reserve Authorities stating he was now a fireman (full time) and how did this affect his 'reserve status'. By reply he was removed from the reserve list.

The world has moved on and the 'mobilisation for nuclear war' has crept back in to the crypt. But the 'New Dimension' civil protection roles being undertaken by the fire services in times of a large scale social or national crisis have also changed. Whether the Fire Authorities would allow a draw on their resources for military service might be affected by those considerations.   

wish you luck with your proposed fire service career, and getting some clarity on whether you can serve two potential masters

[wee brian]

That's a fair explanation as to why TA service is restricted for the emregency services.

I know several police officers (for whom the arguments are similar) who also sreve in the TA. This is allowed subject to approval by their employers. Essentially they allow some coppers to join up but not so many that it will cause them a problem.

Military service can bring new skills and expereince that benefits an employer (I gunned down a few competitors the other day, my shooting skills honed by the British Army) I'm sure the same would apply to fire services (but I bet it varies from brigade to brigade).