Sheltered Housing - Alarm Configuration

[Morri]

Having read through all the sheltered housing threads I was still a bit bamboozled as to the requirements re the alarm configuration. Then I came across a guidance note from West Yorks FRS on the internet which contains the following

Fire originating in a dwelling
A fire alarm sounder should actuate in the dwelling only, and the warden should be alerted. Should the fire spread further and affect a smoke detector in another area or zone (e.g. the corridor outside the dwelling or an adjacent dwelling) then the alarm sounders in that area or zone should also operate.

The alarm sounders should operate in other adjacent dwellings or zones only if they become affected by subsequent fire or smoke spread.

Fire Originating Outside A Dwelling
Only the fire alarm sounder(s) within the zone of the fire should actuate, and the warden should be alerted. A zone should be considered to be an area within the building separated from the remainder by a minimum half hours fire resistance i.e. the corridor outside the dwellings.

The fire alarm sounders in the dwellings, or other zones, should not operate unless actuated directly within the area as a result of any subsequent fire or smoke spread.

Is this finally the clear clarification I was looking for, or.........well, any thoughts?

[Big_Fella]

Regarding the statement 'Fire outside a dwelling':

If for instance within a stairwell, how is the alarm zone configured? Is it a zone per floor and therefore the dwellings on that floor and a portion of the stairwell would be a zone, or is the stairwell a completely different zone to that of the dwelling?

If it's a completely different zone then they are saying not to operate a sounder within a dwelling.  Therefore the fire/smoke could become quote intense before activating another sensor, causing the escape route to be blocked. 

Just a thought.

[Wiz]

I don't know if I have understood the WYFRS advice correctly, but I think that the method they have suggested, in my interpretation, is not very good, and also I think the advice is not clearlyw ritten and difficult to understand anyway.

I would make the following suggestion for suitable operation:

Fire detected in dwelling operates alarm sounder in that dwelling only (and alert warden by most suitable method available)

Fire detected in communal areas operates alarm sounders in communal areas and all dwellings.

[colin todd]

Sheltered housing has to be tailor made. The WYFRS is more or less on target as a guideline and is written for people who know what they are doing, not simply to be read blindly by barrack room lawyers. And if the fire is in the common parts it isnt a great idea to tip people out into the common parts. It never ceases to worry me how people are nowadays unable to use an understanding of basic fire safety to apply codes intelligently.

[Morri]

Wiz, the problem with a fire detected in a communal area sounding the alarms in the dwellings is that it doesn't fit well with a 'Stay Put' policy.

It means residents now have to decide if the alarm is sounding because it is a fire in a communal area, or is it sounding because it is a fire in their flat. The first case requires them to stay put, the second to evacuate. In reality everyone comes out to find out what's going on!

I have two slight concerns with the WYFRS guidance, firstly it's the fact that people aren't being alerted to a fire elsewhere in the same building (but I know that's just me being old fashioned) and secondly the weekly testing, if alarms only sound locally do you test all zones individually???

[kurnal]

The West Yorkshire document is designed for warden conrolled sheltered housing. In my experience live in wardens are pretty much extinct species.  And many former warden controlled sheltered housing schemes never met the compartmentation or travel distance requirements for a stay put arrangement.

[Morri]

Thanks kurnal, but we have 24hr cover so that isn't an issue.

It really goes back to what Colin said I suppose, having taylor made strategies depending on what you have. We presently have a common policy across three sites, maybe we need to redesign our approach on a building by building case. Harder to implement and monitor, but ultimately more effective.

[colin todd]

We have formulated fire strategies for a number of sheltered schemes, particularly the modern extra care ones. It is impossible to run on tramlines of guidance or dogma. It needs proper individual strategies.

[kurnal]

We have formulated fire strategies for a number of sheltered schemes, particularly the modern extra care ones. It is impossible to run on tramlines of guidance or dogma. It needs proper individual strategies.

Agreed. However this can create difficulties for social housing providers especially where they employ mobile wardens-  often contracted security companies on a fly by wire from remote control rooms.  Each sheltered housing scheme can have its own evacuation strategy - but whether anybody knows what it is or why? Thats another matter. Fortunately you can usually rely on the brigade to arrive first and make the right decisions. 

[colin todd]

The only right decision you made when you were in the brigade was to retire, collect the pension and make a lot of dosh in the private sector.

[kurnal]

The only right decision you made when you were in the brigade was to retire, collect the pension and make a lot of dosh in the private sector.

Now now. Are you feeling grumpy because one of the wheels has fallen off your collection of scale model fire engines of yesteryear or perhaps you have broken the clasp off one of your collection of chief fire officer's cap badges? 

[colin todd]

The only thing the wheel has fallen off is fire safety enforcement in england.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Come on Colin its not all bad. Surely that's a business opportunity for you? You could be the man to put the wheel back on through intense enforcement training for Inspecting Officers!

[colin todd]

Sadly not in Cleveland. The Enforcement Concordat has reached those distant shores and as far as I know is adopted by the F&RS, who probably therefore dont need my services.