Public safety hazard from fireworks and gas cylinders

[Chris Houston]

I visited a site (outside the UK) where the neighbour stores and sell fireworks on a wholesale level, i.e. tens of tons and also run a gas cylinder rental operation from the yard with acetylene, oxygen and propane all being stored in bulk.

I have no reason to think the inception hazards are poorly controlled, but the consequences of a fire with this combination of hazardous goods on site does worry me.  I am not familiar with firework storage arrangements either in the UK or in continental europe.

I'm considering dropping a note to the local fire service, but want to guage opinion on whether I'm worried about something unnecessarily.

Is it normal to store fireworks and hazardous gasses in bulk on the same site?

[nearlythere]

I visited a site (outside the UK) where the neighbour stores and sell fireworks on a wholesale level, i.e. tens of tons and also run a gas cylinder rental operation from the yard with acetylene, oxygen and propane all being stored in bulk.

I have no reason to think the inception hazards are poorly controlled, but the consequences of a fire with this combination of hazardous goods on site does worry me.  I am not familiar with firework storage arrangements either in the UK or in continental europe.

I'm considering dropping a note to the local fire service, but want to guage opinion on whether I'm worried about something unnecessarily.

Is it normal to store fireworks and hazardous gasses in bulk on the same site?

Where outside the UK? Ireland?

[Chris Houston]

Continental Western Europe.  I'd rather not say too much about the location.  I appreciate that you therefore can't tell me if it is legal or not, but is it safe or not?  For comparison purposes would it be tollerated in the UK, or Irelan or elsewhere/

[kurnal]

Depends how well the risks are controlled and the proximity of adjoining properties- life risk or property risk? Can a major incident in one be isolated from the other?

In the event of a major incident involving either section of the business the other will become involved- but are the consequences of a big bang from a number of cylinders (explosion) any different to those from the fireworks through detonation?

A word with the fire service is essential in case they are unaware of the steps to be taken in the event of an incident (big ones)

[Chris Houston]

Neighbours 18 metres away.  Industrial and residential properties within normal firework range.  It is not "my" site and not my responsibility to inform the authorities.  I license has been issued.  I'm just wondering if the firework license issuers knew of the gasses on site and if their presence affected anything.

While my objectives are property protection it the the life safety of the neighbours and fire fighters that I am thinking about.

[Midland Retty]

I think it needs looking into - the scenario you describe sounds far from ideal . But that said it does depend on what is 'in place' to reduce the risk

It wouldn't hurt to inform the local fire service. As Kurnal points out there maybe issues they need to look at in terms of tactical firefighting etc.

The relevant authority which grants the license for the sale / storage of fireworks may not have been aware of the gasses on site as you noted Chris !

So to put your mind at rest I'd let any interested parties know and leave it with them.
 

[wee brian]

Arguably fireworks and cylinders are both similar risk so why not store them together.

Its probably as risky as storing twice as many fireworks.

well near enough!

I wonder if there's a max tonnage of fireworks in this particular country. in which case they may have added to the total explosive load (like fire load only louder! - just made that up).

I'd kind of hope the local fire service are at least aware.

[jasper]

if the site is within Europe I would look into their own regulations to comply with the Seveso II Directive i.e. their version of our COHAM dependant in quantity of gas etc present 

[Goodsparks]

UK storage falls within MSER. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051082.htm

Paul