B&B Guidance FFE

[CivvyFSO]

What are the opinions on the guidance stating that multi-purpose extinguisers from a DIY store will suffice.

I think there are 2 issues with the advice;

1: The guide does not suggest a size, possibly leading people to choose the smallest and cheapest, which may not be the best option. (I am sure you will have all seen the extinguishers that are barely more than an aerosol.)
2: The guide points out that these are guaranteed for 5 years. Does that mean (Or insinuate) that the usual yearly service does not apply?

With regards 1: I would have been tempted to include an approximate weight that may be required for a dry powder, we know the size of the places we are talking about, I am sure that someone could have put their head on the block and come up with a reasonable minimum figure.

With regards 2: I would suggest that the yearly service should still be undertaken as a guarantee does not compare to maintenance, and I suspect that sometimes that guarantee may stipulate that regular services are required in order to be valid. (I am sure AnthonyB can put me straight on this one) If maintenance is still required then I think it should be mentioned in the guidance.

[jokar]

Civvy, the issues with regard to buying extinguishers have come up on another thread and there were many points particularly from AB with regard to maintenence.  However, with regard to both your points, like the other guides the B&B guide was written by the Government specialists on the fire safety subject matter and as such they will become prescriptive items whether we like it agree with, it or not.  After all if you have a Killing machine, a vehicle, there is nothing stopping you not having it maintained or doing the maintainance yourself.  A fire extinguisher will raely kill anyone and for most people they are just something that is either hooked to a wall or stuck in a plastic holder on the floor.  Very rarely do they see the action they are intended for no matter what the trade industry might want you believe.

[AnthonyB]

Please do a thread search as I have commented before - however:

1) Size is an issue, especially with untrained staff (don't lets start that issue in this thread!). For years you could get a 600g aerosol BC Powder, but now the pound type bargain shops sell a chinese 500g ABC Powder from the '1st Aid' brand of household medical & safety supplies.

The discharge time is very short and to maintain a minimum time the flow rate poor.

300g extinguishers are manufactured, but aren't seen much here (yet)

The problem with a lot of the smaller extinguishers is that they are BC Powder, not ABC and many end users don't realise the difference and have an extinguisher that is not that good on their main fuel type (go on youtube and you find a clip of a 6 kilo BC struggling on what would be no more than a 5A test fire)

I would have ideally set a minimum capacity/rating of 1kg/5A:34B or better 2kg/13A:55B.

2) Servicing. The original aerosol extinguisher as pioneered by Firemaster (now part of UK Fire) was made in sizes up to 2kg & 2 litre was totally unservicable other than by checking the safety seal & weighing (both a user could do). As a result they were marked with a 5 year warranty and it's function would not be guaranteed by the manufacturer after this date. To encourage replacement Firemaster would give a 50% discount on exchanging an unused out of date unit.

In the late 80's pressure gauges were added to some models of at least 1kg/litre so that they could be kitemarked to BS5423 rather than BS6165 and thus be acceptable in workplaces and on transport where BD5423 compliance was required. Being non refillable they still had the 5 year life and no service requirement.

The guidelines follow this principle above.

HOWEVER

We know that the Govt guide writers have traditionally been 20 years behind with extinguisher technology and this is the case now.

Genuine non refillable aerosols as still made by Firemaster & Fireblitz (new firm set up by ex Firemaster staff) would come under a 5 year life, service free, principle.

But the following types sold directly to the public in stores are different:
Kidde range of residential extinguishers: Are actually standard rebadged Gloria BS EN3 powder extinguishers as you could buy from any extinguisher supplier, are refillable, requiring Basic & Extended Services
First Alert: Rebadged 1kg ANAF EN3 powder - again refillable, needs BS & ES regime.
1st aid: Standard chinese powder can & valve as used by people like Firex, Jewel ,Excelsius, etc just in a small 500g size. Refillable, needs BS & ES regime.
Guardian/Vanguard:All now refillable, needs BS & ES regime.

I could go on.....

The basic principle is that unlike say 10 years ago, most general sale extinguishers are not now disposable, maintenance free aerosols, but standard 'industrial' refillable, requiring the same maintenance as their larger counterparts

[CivvyFSO]

Thanks for the detailed answer AnthonyB.

Jokar, it is good that extinguishers are unlikely to get used, but the simple fact is that someone at some time will have to use one, and it is imperative that when they do, it is capable of doing what it is put there for. We generally have a couple of fires in commercial buildings per day, each of these was very unlikely to happen but they happen nonetheless.