Student house and FRA

[John Dragon]

Does a small house (4 bedrooms) converted to student rooms need a fire risk assessment or is it classed as domestic?

[kurnal]

Generally this would be a HMO and the common areas would be subject to the Fire Safety Order. The Responsible Person must carry out a fire risk asessment but there is no requirement to record the findings.  However many Universities require evidence of the RA as part of their approved accommodation schemes.

I believe there is a legal way round the HMO interpretation- depends on how the building is ocupied - whether the students occupy the building as 4 individuals or whether they occupy it as a group of friends who choose to live together as a single household. If I recall correctly I think there is some reference to this in ADB.  Hey but dont take that as gospel

[terry martin]

Generally this would be a HMO and the common areas would be subject to the Fire Safety Order. The Responsible Person must carry out a fire risk asessment but there is no requirement to record the findings.  However many Universities require evidence of the RA as part of their approved accommodation schemes.

I believe there is a legal way round the HMO interpretation- depends on how the building is ocupied - whether the students occupy the building as 4 individuals or whether they occupy it as a group of friends who choose to live together as a single household. If I recall correctly I think there is some reference to this in ADB.  Hey but dont take that as gospel

If the premise is owned by a person.company, and they employ more than 5 persons, regardless if they do not have employees at the premise, Then they are required to document the RA, Are'ntt they?

[Midland Retty]

Hi Terry

Yes they would need to document the RA in the example you give.

You will find however that the landlord probably doesn't directly employ anyone. He / she may of course occassionally employ  an electrician or plumber to get repairs done but that's about it.

On the issue of FRA in HMOs  I'd welcome you opinions on what constitutes "common areas"

Take a typical terraced house which is rented out to 3 individual people - they aren't friends as such, but do share the bathroom and the kitchen, lounge etc and have their own bedrooms. It is a HMO

Does that premises have a communal or common areas?

I personally feel it does because there are places in that house for all occupants to use communally - such as the kitchen, lounge, bathroom, hallway, stairs etc etc. They are not places in control of just one person or resident.

Some people I have dealt with argue that they do not consitute common areas because it is essentially just a domestic dwelling. I.e. its not like the common areas you find in other types of HMOs or blocks of flats such as circulation staircases or corridors accessing entrance doors to flats or staircases

Would welcome your thoughts on this (which links into John's original question)

[CivvyFSO]

Generally this would be a HMO and the common areas would be subject to the Fire Safety Order. The Responsible Person must carry out a fire risk asessment but there is no requirement to record the findings.  However many Universities require evidence of the RA as part of their approved accommodation schemes.

I believe there is a legal way round the HMO interpretation- depends on how the building is ocupied - whether the students occupy the building as 4 individuals or whether they occupy it as a group of friends who choose to live together as a single household. If I recall correctly I think there is some reference to this in ADB.  Hey but dont take that as gospel

From a press release from the Landlords Accociation:

"And the national joint working group, set up by local authorities and chief fire officers, has now ruled that shared houses can be taken outside the scope of the Fire Safety Order. That leaves only the local authority as a single regulator - applying HMO licence conditions, when the shared house needs a licence, and otherwise the Housing Health and Safety Rating System."

I can't find any other reference to this ruling though.

There is no way around the HMO tag though, but it has previously been acknowledged that this scenario is less of a risk that a normal HMO. So whereas the Housing Act clearly labels it as a HMO, the guidance available treats it different. (LACORS guidance mentions shared houses several times)

[memnon30]

We ask for written RAs if they are licenced HMOs under pt2 , 9, 6b ( ..." a licence under an enactment is in force....") using the housing act, which I believe is 5 people and 3 story ( inc basement) and / or 200m2.
We also ask for detection in their rooms if we feel that a fire in them may effect others means of escape.

[Medieval]

Apologies if this is a daft question but in HMOs, how is the activity of smoking controlled or prevented, particularly if smoke detection has ben installed in the bedrooms? Are false alarms an ongoing issue?

Is this governed by the individual lease contracts as I am asssuming that as they are effectively private accomodation, smoking within the house is permissable.

Kind regards

[kurnal]

Apologies if this is a daft question but in HMOs, how is the activity of smoking controlled or prevented, particularly if smoke detection has ben installed in the bedrooms? Are false alarms an ongoing issue?

Is this governed by the individual lease contracts as I am asssuming that as they are effectively private accomodation, smoking within the house is permissable.

Kind regards

I propose public flogging. Seriously in practice its impossible to enforce. Peer pressure can work but can go the otherway and result in at worse vandalism to the panel or at best a rubber glove over the detector