Article 35 - Appeals

[BB]

With regards to Article 35 of the Fire Safety Order. If an Enforcement or Alterations notice is served on the R.P. he can within 21 days appeal of the notice.

So for example.........An Enforcement notice is served on the R.Person on the 01/02/2009 informing him/her to fit 6 fire doors on the escape route giving them at least 28 days...Article 30 (2) (c) work to be completed by the 01/03/2009. Which is an unreasonable amount of time.

Therefore the R.P. decides to appeal, however he must appeal by the 22/02/2009.

He decides to appeal on the 20/02/2009 and the courts affirm the Enforcement notice, does that effectively mean that the R.P then only has 2 days to complete the work under the original Enforcement notice or does the 28 days start from the outcome of the appeal.

This situation could work the other way in so far as he appeals on the 01/02/2009 but the courts do not deal with his appeal until the 20/02/2009 which is out of his control giving him 2 days to complete the work if the courts affirm the notice.

Your thoughts please!!



 

[jokar]

One you appeal, the Notice is suspended and therefore reverts to the original time constraints once the appeal is lost.  The CFOA process for Enforcement follows the HSE Enforcement management Model in which all time limits should be agreed by both parties.  Obviosly some FRS are unaware of how they are supposed to be working.  If your doors were that dangerous they would probably looking at Prohibition.

[CivvyFSO]

Your thoughts please!!

Erm... Appeal sooner?

once the appeal is lost

Very good.

[messy]

One you appeal, the Notice is suspended and therefore reverts to the original time constraints once the appeal is lost.  The CFOA process for Enforcement follows the HSE Enforcement management Model in which all time limits should be agreed by both parties.  Obviosly some FRS are unaware of how they are supposed to be working.  If your doors were that dangerous they would probably looking at Prohibition.

Jokar.

What make you think that 6 fire doors constitutes a prohibition notice? Perhaps in a sleeping risk with one direction of travel*, but an office with more than one MOE??

In my experience, trying to drag a (non fire safety) AC off the golf course on a Friday afternoon and getting him to make such a decision is about as difficult as buying a warm sausage at LFB HQ (well OK, not that difficult!).

*I have requested a team leader to consider an Art 31 for a 4 floor single staircase hotel with a full scale office in the protected route and been refused. So what chance for a few doors???

[jokar]

Messy, being unaware of the premises I have no idea whether it is prohibitable or not.  My point was that if the FRS considered it that dangerous they would use Article 31.  As they haven't, it cannot be that dangerous and therefore they would probably lose at appeal.

[CivvyFSO]

My point was that if the FRS considered it that dangerous they would use Article 31.  As they haven't, it cannot be that dangerous and therefore they would probably lose at appeal.

I think I originally misunderstood your meaning here. So just to clear it up before confusion reigns... I take it that you mean that the appeal would lose on account of an unreasonable date being put forward. (And not that the doors shouldn't be asked for unless it is so dangerous as to warrant a prohibition)

I would have to agree. Allowing 28 days is completely impractical for anything approaching building work. Some things do warrant short timescales, but if a corridor that is unprotected requires work to be done so urgently then it should warrant a prohibition. And if that is the case, once the prohibition is in place an enforcement notice shouldn't be served for works to remedy the situation, it should simply be in the form of an addition to the prohibition, showing a list of what is required (in general terms, i.e. Supply a suitable means of escape) to warrant lifting the prohibition, with no timescale. (It is hard to breach an article with no relevant persons at risk)