Fatal Newquay Hotel Fire

[Tom Sutton]

The WPFL and FPA were about protecting buildings and employees and hotel guests were part of that.  The difference now is that all people are relevant and protection has to be provided.

The FPA was not about saving property it was all about means of escape and saving people including those resorting to, building control concerned themselves about saving buildings. However this is irrelevant the FPA is gone we now have to use the current legislation. The big difference between then and now is the concept of MOE, we believed in passive fire safety measures and used active measures only as a last resort now it seems active fire protection  is the first consideration.

My concerns with both the Newquay and Blackpool fires was the speed the fire spread if the newspapers are to be believed less than ten minutes from start to total involvement.

[Andy Cole]

On a slightly different tack, it was most enlightening to hear the FBU at TUC conference last week make reference to the acute lack of social housing, rich cats buying second homes in rural towns & villages, minimum wage remaining static.....my point? - the same as the FBU's, price-out the work force from these areas and FRS has no pool of volunteers to man retained stations...one of the factors that Cornwall is currently facing and not alone I'm sure!

Its just my thoughts.....

We have a very similar problem not a million miles up the road from yourself!!

[AnthonyB]

Hotels are coming in for some stick, but the law change is actually making this more apparent - I was watching a regional BBC news programme whilst away this week and a main story was a hotel that had been visited an undercover fire safety guy sent in to investigate (either for the BBC or a consumer group I missed the start of the clip) and he found all sorts of things like non smoke sealed doors, sliding doors (non FR) to stairs, alternative escape route access for whole floors through rooms locked with the Summerland/Woolworths killer 'key in glass fronted box' and lots, lots more. After the whistle was well and truly blown the FRS had to send in an inspector and slapped an agreed action plan for every contravention. From the size of the hotel it loked like it probably will have been certified in the past.

Lesson - the FPA wasn't perfect, the RRO can bring improvements - but only with enforcement. If the press hadn't done their own thing and pushed the FRS into visiting & doing something do you think anything would have changed?

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

fact of the matter is that NOTHING is being learn't from this.

We still treat AFAs as a waste of time, we still have this daft situation of self inspection and we still have no aswers from senior managers as to why they want to get rid of or downgrade aerial appliances. Thae fact that Cornwall had None avalible and the nearest came from Devon.

Retained recruitment and retention isn't being addressed properly. If you treat people like second class employees then the will leave, I know I did. Brigades all around the country are moaning that they can't get anyone; the fact is they can but they cant be bothered. Think of the money they are saving by not employing all of these retained firefighters. Its also happening with Wholetime. When I was retained i could have found enough men & women to man the station 24/7 but  managers always found an excuse to no take somebody on, usualy they don't provide full cover or the right sort of day cover. Thats a fact.

Try ringing a selection of brigades around the counrty to see if they are recruiting retained. While they tell you no, their retained stations are suffering from shortages.

I recently spoke to a 'Station Manager' with just five years experience in the job. Didn't have any managerial qualities whatsoever and had very little experience of the job operationaly. He spoke some good PQAs though! And he was being 'developed in his role' via an ADC. The Ffs he 'managed' couldn't stand him and he had no time for them, he was looking forward to getting his next 'role'.

This for me summed up the state of the fire service and how we have got to this point (mainly thanks to a labour government not the FBU)

I can no longer stand to be involved with this shambles anymore. I leave the job next month after 8 years. It was the only job I have ever wanted to do since leaving school and i've watched it being torn appart by PC idiots and yes men.

I say good luck to anyone joining now, your welcome to a career of putting up smoke alarms and delivering leaflets. Watching properties burn to the ground and not being able to think on your own two feet anymore. As long as we continue to go down this road the fire service as we know it is doomed.

It is good to see a site like this letting people out there know what the fire service has become and long may it continue but for me its - Closing down home station - for good.

Cheers All

[The Lawman]

Sad reading that Pete as I know there are many who will share your views. Where do we go from here?

I wish I could change your mind.

Best of luck in the future.

[kurnal]

Well said Pete. The job and your community will be all the poorer for losing your services.
The wheel will turn a full circle eventually though- you can be sure of that.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Is it just me or has this gone way off topic?

I thought this thread was about the hotel fire in Newquay but it appears to have spiralled into a blame apportioning lets make someone a scapegoat and look at the state if the modern Fire and Rescue Service topic.

Pete_P, it is obvious your are dispondant with the service and how things are and the decision to leave is not an easy one to make, but, even after 22 years of service, both Retained and Wholetime, I consider it to still be the best job. Unfortunately, things hapen which we don't like or agree with but you have to move and change with the times, but that's my opinion, not yours.

I wish you all the very best for the future.

[jokar]

Fact - There was a fire
Fact - We do not know the cause
fact - Unfortunately lives were lost
Fact - There were some operational issues
Fact - A Fire Cetificate or a FRA may not have stopped or caused the fire
Fact - Fire Safety in all streams relies on the management
Fact - The modernisation agenda of the Government has and will continue to affect morale in the Fire Service for longer serving members.

[John Webb]

Number of items in various places about the announcement by the police today that they are now investing a murder case, as the fire was started by an arsonist.
See, for example, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7202053.stm

[kurnal]

Inquest in progress at the moment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8089921.stm

[nearlythere]

I can no longer stand to be involved with this shambles anymore. I leave the job next month after 8 years. It was the only job I have ever wanted to do since leaving school and i've watched it being torn appart by PC idiots and yes men.
Cheers All

Did you leave the job CFSP?

[Steven N]

I can no longer stand to be involved with this shambles anymore. I leave the job next month after 8 years. It was the only job I have ever wanted to do since leaving school and i've watched it being torn appart by PC idiots and yes men.
Cheers All

Did you leave the job CFSP?

Probably nearly there, hence the name change? Of course he could just be altruistic & willing to work for less cash. I think your question deserves an answer.