Author Topic: PAT Testing  (Read 5165 times)

jakespop

  • Guest
PAT Testing
« on: January 20, 2010, 06:34:00 PM »
Any opinions on whether PAT Testing is required in a small business with one self employed person and occasional visits by members of the public? This is a small sewing business.

Offline jokar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1472
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 08:32:21 PM »
Portable and moveable equipment should be tested to ensure its integrity no matter where it is used or stored.  Gudiance would suggest that the less it is moved the less often it could be subject to test.  People renting property, flats etc, have to have equipment tested as part of their agreement.

Offline Mike Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1045
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 08:34:36 PM »
My initial reaction is no, based on the single person being self employed and the only person who is likely to be harmed by the ommission is the person who did the ommitting. However if other people are liable to be harmed by the ommission the PAT testing would be required.

So if the small business is in the owners home or an isolated building where they are the only occupant no problem, but if the business is in a building where other people could be harmed if the equipment started a fire then, IMHO PAT testing would be required.

Even if the business did not threaten anyone but the self employed person I would suggest that PAT testing would be recommended, but not required.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline AnthonyB

  • Firenet Extinguisher Expert
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2479
    • http://www.firewizard.co.uk
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 10:46:18 PM »
Actually - yes is the answer. PAT testing (inspection only or inspection & test as appropriate) is part of a duty holders compliance under The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989

"Persons on whom duties are imposed by these Regulations
    3.—(1)  Except where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, it shall be the duty of every-

       (a) employer and self-employed person to comply with the provisions of these Regulations in so far as they relate to matters which are within his control;"

They have control over their equipment so are under the same obligations as if they employed someone to use it.
Anthony Buck
Owner & Fire Safety Consultant at Fire Wizard


Extinguisher/Fire History Enthusiast

Fire Extinguisher Facebook Group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=65...415&ref=ts
http://www.youtube.com/user/contactacb
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/anthony-buck-36

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 01:41:13 AM »
As far as I'm aware theres nothing in the Electricity at Work Regulations that specifically  requires  PAT testing.

PAT testing is a good way of demonstrating due diligence and will tend to indicate compliance with the Regs. take a look at this: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/INDG236.pdf

Offline Tom Sutton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 09:56:26 AM »
Are you sure Kurnal I think AnthonyB posting is very clear and the booklet doesn’t say there should be no testing it just says only equipment that is not double insulated and you do not need a qualified electrician to do it?
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 10:05:32 AM »
Have to agree with Kurnel. Although it does not specifically refer to PAT it does require electrical installations and equipment to be adequately maintained so as to be safe.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Martin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 10:31:40 AM »
"Maintained" in a safe condition in the E at Work Regns means to be kept in a constant state of safety, but is qualified by "as far as reasonably practicable." No mention of testing or inspection. However it wil be almost impossible to show you are keeping your equipment safe without some form of inspection regime.

As part of Fire RA I would normally ask/advise about inspection/testing of portable appliances as part of controlling ignition risk. Self employed in this case are exactly same duties as employer for complying with Elec at Work Regns (enforced by LAs and HSE) and may well be RP under Fire Legn with duty to assess and control risks of fire.

I've found it more common for people to have portable equipment inspected but who does fixed installation  inspections as detailed in IEE edition 17. Landlord, Tenant? Which is greate fire risk, fixed or portable.


jakespop

  • Guest
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 12:28:13 PM »
Taking that a little further, is it Landlord's responsibility(in commercial premises) to carry out periodic electrical istallation inspection of whole building. Each individual premises have their own consumer unit.

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 12:53:48 PM »
Taking that a little further, is it Landlord's responsibility(in commercial premises) to carry out periodic electrical istallation inspection of whole building. Each individual premises have their own consumer unit.
I would suggest that, unless it is written into the terms of the lease as otherwise, because the installation is not under the control of the occupier, it would be the building owners responsibility.
The consumer units would obviously be installed for the purposes of portioning the cost to electricity use to each occupier.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Dinnertime Dave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 819
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 01:59:36 PM »

Have to agree with kurnal - see following link -


 www.hse.gov.uk/myth/july.htm






Offline Tom Sutton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 02:46:46 PM »
I stand corrected.  :'( In my defense the guidence http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/INDG236.pdf does recommends it.

Quote

What about testing, I had thought that was essential?

Not for all equipment. However, some faults cannot be seen just by looking, particularly lack of continuous earths. For some equipment the earth is essential to safety. Therefore all earthed equipment, and most leads and plugs connected to equipment, should also have an occasional combined inspection and test to look for these and other faults. Suggested intervals are shown on the opposite page. Combined inspection and testing can be carried out at the start of a maintenance system to establish the initial condition of the equipment. Combined inspection and testing should be carried out where there is reason to suspect the equipment may be faulty, damaged or contaminated but this cannot be confirmed by visual inspection; and after any repair, modification or similar work to the equipment, when its integrity needs to be established.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 02:52:08 PM by twsutton »
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline John Webb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 01:28:16 PM »
Insurers may also have requirements for PAT as a condition of continuing their cover of a building.
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline Davo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
Re: PAT Testing
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2010, 03:43:36 PM »
Jakespop

You don't say what the appliances are.

Is the appliance capable of catching/causing fire?  If so there may be a duty of care to those who might be affected by that fire eg next door or above shop as per the Order.


davo