Supported Assisted Living

[Clevelandfire 3]

To be honest in this situation I probably would go for window rescue as a plan B. Its what we advise members of the public in their own homes why should this be any different. TW no one is saying you are incorrect but you have to balance the risk against the consequences. The risk may be low but the consequences very high. To combat that wack in an interlinked fire alarm system and you are already exceeding what most people have in their domestic single dwelling cosy homes. Still dont think HTM 88 is the right guide for this.

[nearlythere]

To be honest in this situation I probably would go for window rescue as a plan B. Its what we advise members of the public in their own homes why should this be any different. TW no one is saying you are incorrect but you have to balance the risk against the consequences. The risk may be low but the consequences very high. To combat that wack in an interlinked fire alarm system and you are already exceeding what most people have in their domestic single dwelling cosy homes. Still dont think HTM 88 is the right guide for this.

HTM88 not the right guide but whacking in an interlinked fire alarm system is?

[xan]

Some years ago I worked with a number of people suffering from various levels of learning disabilitiesand mental health illness,living in the community.There was no 'live in staff',and they lived in two storey accommodation(houses/flats) which all had been provided with enclosed FR staircases and an L2 system.I have also lived a few doors away for the last 20 years to a small house that has sleep in staff-the lads(adults) living their are dependent on 24 hour staffing,and do little for them selves,some are unable to communicate clearly or are withdrawn.Their house also has a protected stairway and an L2 system.I would be reluctant to accept an open staircase in these types of premises,simply because of the unpredictable nature, variation of levels of  learning disability, and other circumstances such as refusal to take medication etc where they may well refuse to,or delay evacuation,putting staff at risk as well as themselves.

[Colin Newman]

I disagree NT & Cleveland, HTM 88 was specifically written to address the needs of supported living. 

It was written by my team at NHS Estates at the time that "Care in the Community" was in full swing and there was a drive to accommodate "clients" ( those with mental health issues, dementia or learning difficulties) in a domestic environment as opposed to the institutional environment of mental health hospitals.

At the time it was written there was great debate over the duty of care owed to the clients since the majority of these premises were not owned by the NHS, but were secured under tenancy agreement between the client and landlord, albeit in most cases the NHS would arrange the tenancy and in some provide the staff.  Things got even more murky when units were provided with care staff from social services since the Department of Health did not retain the fire safety policy lead for social services which were run by local authority and therfore were not obliged to follow the guidance of HTM 88.

[ando]

Not sure about england and wales but here in scotland it would not be a relevant premises.  There would have to be an element of care provided or 3 or more persons for which it is their primary or only residence.
There is a loophole in the law which is often exploited by local authorities.
I had a case where 2 people were provided with a shared house with 24 hour staffing, but despite one of those being bed ridden and completely incapable of doing anything at all for themselves the care commission still thought it appropriate to class it as assisted living. Odd reasoning as this person would just wither and die on their own. He needed more help than just a bit of vacuuming and washing done.

[FSO]

To be honest in this situation I probably would go for window rescue as a plan B. Its what we advise members of the public in their own homes why should this be any different. 

I think you would struggle justifying this in court. I certinally know the legal view on this from a certain barrister and his opinion would be if it is not in the guide it does not exist.

Personally I am a supporter of window escape where it is not reasonbly practicable to support any other means and the occupancy will support this strategy.

Im not sure this one meets this criteria, difficult to tell from a distance of course.