Author Topic: COMPLIANCE OF CLG WITH ARTICLE 18 OF FSO  (Read 3215 times)

Offline colin todd

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COMPLIANCE OF CLG WITH ARTICLE 18 OF FSO
« on: June 14, 2010, 09:50:45 PM »
I have watched from afar, as it were, purely as an innocent bystander, the threads about apparent breaches of just about every Article  of the FSO possible at the CLG HQ, Eland House.
Ever since I read the Enforcement Notice, or rather read about it, a conundrum has occurred to me and causes me to toss and turn at night. It is one of those conundrums....well has anyone ever followed what appear to be an inexorable sequence of steps in a logical order and you find that the last step shows the earth is flat when you know full well it is round, but then, when you retrace your steps, you cant find the flaw in the logic?
Well, this conundrum is a bit like that, and I will try to set it out logically in the hope that my sleep can be resumed by identification of the flawed step by someone much wiser than I.

1. It is said that the Notice cites a contravention of Article 18, which, as we know, requires the RP to nominate someone to assist him in (in short) compliance with the FSO. If the RP has a competent person in his employment it must be that person who is appointed, rather than a third party, such as a consultant.  Indeed, it is said that the Notice cites not just breaches of the FSO at Eland House but a lack of ownership of fire safety management across the CLG Estate.


2.The RP would be the employer of people who work in the building so that would be the CLG. The boss of the CLG would be the Secretary of State, and that is consistent with the fact that it was on the S0S that the Notice was served.

3. By all accounts the Notice was not challenged. Indeed it is said that the CLG accept the recommendations of the Notice.

4. Now that would mean that they accept the contravention of Article 18 and that, therefore, the Secretary of State had no competent person in his employment (or otherwise) to advise him on compliance with the FSO.

But surely that cant be right can it??  I would never even suggest such a thing personally, and yet my (somehow flawed) logic would lead to such an incorrect conclusion, for it is what the CPIG wallah seems to say and that the CLG accept.

When I get to that point I always start again,,,,so the RP is the CLG and the SoS has the notice served on him.....Nope still can't find the flaw even though I know in my heart of hearts there is one.

On the other hand if the poor old Secretary has no one competent in his employment to advise him (which I say again is not my personal belief of course), he can use outside consultants and, in this connection, Minister, I am ready and willing to assist England's Queen and country, pending my forced repatriation to Scotland.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 09:53:41 PM by colin todd »
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Meerkat

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Re: COMPLIANCE OF CLG WITH ARTICLE 18 OF FSO
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 08:56:06 AM »
As I read Article 18 it's not just about having a competent person in your employment - which I think we can agree the SoS probably did have!

That competent person or persons has to be:

a) Actually appointed to do the job.  (may be no-one was actually tasked to do a FRA?)
b) Provided with sufficient time and means to do the job

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are asking Colin?  (which is quite possible!)
There's nothing simple about a Meerkat...

Offline graz

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Re: COMPLIANCE OF CLG WITH ARTICLE 18 OF FSO
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 09:03:06 AM »
i think Colin was being 'rhetorical' and will be heading up the Tower not up north.
gamekeeper turned poacher

Offline Davo

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Re: COMPLIANCE OF CLG WITH ARTICLE 18 OF FSO
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 09:07:17 AM »
Colin
I can't argue with your logic, so
Turn this around.

CLG say all measures will be in place by the end of the week.
It would be interesting to find out what measures they have put in place and then work out just what they think they were in breach of

More interesting to me is the caff in the atrium :o



davo

Offline John Webb

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Re: COMPLIANCE OF CLG WITH ARTICLE 18 OF FSO
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 10:59:01 AM »
Colin - have you taken into accout the strange effect of the CLG estate being 'Crown Property' and therefore having this peculiar property of apparently being both inside and outside the legislation......... It does make interpretation that more complex!
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline colin todd

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Re: COMPLIANCE OF CLG WITH ARTICLE 18 OF FSO
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 09:51:07 PM »
Meerkat, No I dont think you are misunderstanding, but the Article 18 person is not necessarily the person who does the FRA, simply someone competent to advise the S0S.  Now, you say there is someone, but are you saying they had no time to advise the poor old Secretary or that they lacked competence?

Davo, So you think there is no one comptent to advise????  And what is your interest in caffs? I am trying to avoid them as part of my new diet.

Graz, me rhetorical surely not.  I have an invitation to a garden party at Buck Hoos.  Do you think it is a trap and that just as Her Majesty is asking me what I do, men in black will spirit me away to the Tower, holding me for ransom, pending negotiations with the Scottish Government for what's left of the North Sea oil?

John, I imagne you are on the right lines, but crown immunity is from prosecution not compliance. 


Regardless of all this will anyone from CLG dare to show their face in public ever again as long as they remain employed by the CLG to pompously and hypocritically tell people what they should be doing and about people need ing to have suitable and sufficient fra.
Surely their credibility is totally undermined, as it will be open for anyone in the audience (not that I would personally)to suggest they go home and put their own house in order before they have the total gall to preach at others.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates